Topics: Asylum Seekers, Opinion Polls and the Royal Baby
E&OE………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
David Lipson
….joining me now is Labor MP Amanda Rishworth in Adelaide and in Melbourne Liberal Senator Scott Ryan, thank you very much for your time today. First to you Amanda Rishworth, why is there such secrecy about exactly what PNG is getting out of this deal?
Amanda Rishworth
Well look, I think what the Prime Minister has done is announce an agreement Prime Minister to Prime Minister and revealed a plan which will see refugees permanently settled in PNG. Now in terms of the details, we are working through those details. What I see quite frankly from the leader of the Opposition is desperation, his three word slogans have been left behind and he’s not able to use it anymore.
Lipson
PNG must have got something out of this deal. They must have in order to sign-on to it because this is controversial in that country. So why can’t the Australian people be given some sort of indication as to what that is?
Rishworth
Well look, we’ve been providing aid to PNG for some time and we have announced we will be helping with the re-settlement and the expansion on Manus Island, and we will continue to work through those details. In terms of the aid priorities I think it shows that Tony Abbott just doesn’t understand our foreign aid program and he hasn’t paid much attention to it. Of course you work with a recipient country and workout where that aid will be. You don’t go in and say we are spending this money here, you don’t get a choice in it, you don’t get a say. We are not doing that because it doesn’t work, it doesn’t deliver on the Millennium Development goals in which we want to achieve.
Lipson
Scott Ryan, what are your concerns in this agreement?
Scott Ryan
David, the more we learn about the stunt Kevin Rudd pulled on Friday the more problematic it is. We learnt today after a detailed analysis of the two page exchange of letters that only two paragraphs deal with the removal and replacement of people. They do not give any guarantees that anybody who arrives by boat unlawfully will go to PNG, they don’t give any guarantees that people will not be resettled in Australia. What we’ve learnt today is that the Prime Minister has talked about a change in the way Australian aid is used in PNG, the fact he made that comment indicates there has been a change. Nothing in the detail that Kevin Rudd announced last week, nothing indicates the financial cost of this to the Australian taxpayer. This is an election arrangement, this is not a solution to stop the boats and even since it was singed we’ve had three boats and 200 people turn up.
Lipson
Even Malcolm Turnbull believes it can stop the boats if it’s implemented correctly. Do you agree with that?
Ryan
We have said we will work with PNG to stop the boats. The Australian people know we stopped the boats our record speaks for itself and the Australian people know the Labor Party started the boats again. This is a stunt, a stunt to get Kevin Rudd to the election. The way it was formulated in the exchange of letters last week shows there’s nothing, nothing in that stunt that guarantees people who arrive in Australia unlawfully on boats will be sent to PNG. It’s aspirational at best.
Lipson
Amanda Risworth, as a woman and a member of the ALP, do you feel comfortable with mothers and children fleeing persecution being sent to PGN under this deal, where violence against women is so prominent, and if found to be genuine refugees will be permanently re-settled there?
Rishworth
Look, I’ll make a few points. Obviously we’ve had to take this very decisive action as a result of seeing people dying at sea that include women and children. We had to take swift action to deter people getting on the boats; of course I don’t want to see anybody die at sea. The Liberal Party has a slogan stop the boats, turn the boats around but no plan of how, what, why, where. We have now come up with a plan to say don’t risk your life by getting on a boat, don’t risk your life by getting on a boat to PGN…
Lipson
…but in order to implement that plan women are going to have to be sent to a country which is pretty dangerous for women.
Rishworth
Look, I think it was made very clear in the announcement that we would be working with PNG on law and order and aid as part of our program. We have officers that will be working with local law enforcement agencies but we need to send a strong deterrent and we will be working with PNG and this is a real plan, a real plan forward to deter people from actually getting on a boat, and we need to send a strong message not glip-slogans. I think that’s why you’re seeing Scott and Tony trash around here because they know we have a plan in front of us and they only have a slogan.
Lipson
Scott Ryan, the Coalition’s plan is to turn back the boats when safe to do so. Would you consider it safe to do so if those boats had women and children on board?
Ryan
David, we will do what we did last time. All the Coalition wants to do is implement the policies that worked last time. The Labor Party is desperate here, they know people have lost faith in their border protection policies and they know the number of people, 48,000 since they changed the laws, have posed a great threat to the integrity to our migration program that has enjoyed such strong public support over many years. We have always said we will leave the decisions to the commanders who are on the spot. Let’s be clear about this, this is not a slogan, it’s not a theory, the Coalition wants to put in place the polices that worked last time. What Labor wants to do is announce something to get them through to an election because they know they have no credibility on this issue. I have sat in Parliament and for years have been lectured by Chris Evans and every one of Labor’s Immigration Ministers about how the Coalition’s policies didn’t work. Well they did and Labor’s policies have failed and we only have to look at the 48,000 people who have arrived.
Lipson
Scott Ryan, do you have any concerns about the advertising campaign the Government has launched that have features in newspapers right across the country with full page ads warning of this policy shift. The minister says this is to inform families here so they can tell their family members who are planning on coming to Australia. Do you accept that?
Ryan
We all know what the ads are about, it’s to get at voters. The ads are to create a false sense that Labor has a plan to stop the boats. I’ve sat through Estimates Committees time after time where Labor has tried to justify this. I don’t see people on the train in the morning reading the Herald Sun that are involved with people smuggling. Those ads are aimed at the voter, it’s the most shallow, callus and simplistic attempt for Labor to try and buy credibly that I’ve ever seen, and nobody buys it.
Lipson
Amanda Rishworth a response to that?
Rishworth
Well look, clearly we know and if Scott had paid much attention he’d know that there are people in contact in source countries, family members and friends that do speak. We are not saying that those people are people smugglers but there are people out there with connections. We need to get that message out there domestically and we need to get it out internationally and that’s what we are doing. Quite frankly, it’s a bit hypocritical for Scott to sit here and talk about a very modest advertising campaign to help us get through our message, compared to his Work Choices binge which gave us no information but told us that cutting your penalty rates was good for the country….
Ryan
…that’s the best Labor can do, hark back to 2007…
Lipson
…I’m going to interrupt here guys. We have to take a break. We’ll be back with more after this. Don’t go anywhere.
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Lipson
Welcome back to Lunchtime Agenda. There’s been a new Opinion Poll out today and if it’s to be believed it looks like some of the sugar hit has burnt-up. Let’s look at the primary vote and we see that Labor’s numbers there have come off the boil a little bit from 48 to 47 with the Coalition up three points. The two-party-preferred after preferences has changed towards the Opposition 52 to 48 there. On preferred Prime Minister as well, Kevin Rudd is still well ahead there of Tony Abbott but not as far as he was a couple of weeks ago. I’m still joined by our political panel Amanda Rishworth and Senator Scott Ryan. Amanda Rishworth, you were a strong supporter of Julia Gillard before the leadership change, what’s been the reaction from your electorate now that it has been a few weeks since this change?
Rishworth
Well look, people are very positively welcoming Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister. They are pleased to see the party is unified and getting on with the job of tackling a number of important policy areas of border protection, talking about and moving towards an ETS and getting on with the job of the Better Schools Plan. People want to see the Government to be positive and indeed they want to see the Opposition to be positive, I don’t think we have much hope there. They are certainly welcoming Kevin Rudd and when I’m out there talking to people about our plans, they are talking about the sorts of things they want for the future.
Lipson
Scott Ryan, that preferred Prime Minister figure must be a concern to you and others in your party?
Ryan
Not at all David. I remember back in 1996 on the front page of the Age, I think it was, there was a popularity rating and it had Paul Keating as favourite over John Howard. Those ratings aren’t really important. Over the last few weeks I’ve been to Adelaide, Sydney and of course in Melbourne where I’m based, and regional Victoria. Not one person has been talking to me about the change in Labor leadership, we know why Labor changed the leadership it was purely poll driven…
Lipson
…not one?
Ryan
No not at all, they talk about their problems. They talk about their issues particularity small businesses, an area in which I’m partly responsible. They want to hear about solutions and about what the Coalition will do. I talk to them about unfair contracts, pressure of red tape that’s what people are interested in. The Labor Party’s internal fighting over the last three years disappoints them. They didn’t elect a leader to fix that party’s problems, they want somebody to fix their problems.
Lipson
Just before I let you go on that point Scott Ryan. An internal Labor Party poll in Hasluck in WA has seen a dramatic turnaround in that seat, where it was 61-39 under Julia Gillard for the Coalition. Now it’s 50-50 and Tony Abbotts’ approval rating there was 57% but is now 37%. Is that a concern in just one seat?
Ryan
One thing I’m not going to give any credence to is leaked Labor polling. Labor’s motivation could be anything here, it could be to cause trouble for its own side. Don’t believe a leaked Labor poll David; Believe what people are saying on the ground. Over in Western Australia, people are still talking about Labor’s attack on mining, that’s what I constantly hear when I visit and from my Western Australian colleagues.
Lipson
Amanda Rishworth, do you expect now that Labor is more in favour in places like Western Australia, Queensland and in your home state of South Australia. Do you expect now rather than fighting to retain seats, you will be fighting to pick-up a few seats?
Rishworth
Well look, we’ve been very clear that we will be campaigning right across this country. Whether that be in South Australia, Western Australia, Queensland, New South Wales, Tasmania we have been very clear with our campaigning by putting a choice forward to the Australian people. The choice is clear, Labor that has a plan for the future, that’s looking at education, disability care, looking at what we can do to keep the economy ticking over, focussing on jobs and an Opposition that has slogans and negativity. This is the choice and we are going to be putting this out to the Australian people up until the election. Ww are going to make sure our policies are properly costed and if you look to the move to emissions trading and we have provided our responsible savings. Of course when it comes to the Opposition, they have a $12 billion plan to reduce emissions but no way to actually pay for that. Quite frankly, we will be putting costed policies in front of the Australian people and they will have a choice between that, our positive plan for the future and the negativity that the Opposition just throw around.
Lipson
Amanda Rishworth, yesterday the Caucus passed through Kevin Rudd’s Labor Party reforms, the one area that didn’t go through was the quota needed to spill an Opposition leader. Kevin Rudd wanted it to be 75% of the Caucus it’s now 60%. Is that something that you pushed for?
Rishworth
Look, what was very clear in Kevin’s proposal and what I supported was when people elect a Prime Minister that they serve out their full term, and that’s what the rules say. In terms of lowering the threshold in Opposition leader that is something Kevin, in his press conference, did leave open for the Caucus and he did leave it open. The key issue here is that, and Kevin has been listening to people, that people wanted to know that if he was put in, he would stay as Prime Minister and that’s what this rule does, and it also throws open the opportunity to the Australian Labor Party to choose their leader. Of course when it comes to the Opposition leader the threshold was reduced but that was something Kevin had signalled as something he wanted to talk about with Caucus.
Lipson
Scott Ryan, do you see any merit in these reforms? Is it something the Coalition should at least have a look at?
Ryan
This is another stunt by Kevin Rudd. Amanda joined a political party and she’s now a member of a personality cult where Lord Kevin of Griffith is trying to set himself up so he can’t be challenged, even if he goes as mad as Doc Evatt did. What this is, is an attempt by Labor to avoid any real discussions about the cultural problems that exist, which their own people have called the NSW disease. No one at this point believes you won’t have the union heavies come in and if they really want to get rid of a leader they will do it again. They have done it twice in the last few years, Australians are sick of going to bed one night and waking up to a new Prime Minister. A little technical rule change by the Labor Party is not going to change the real power the factional heads and union paymasters have over the Labor Party.
Lipson
What about the rule that will allow rank and file members of the party to have 50% of the say in actually selecting the leader is that something that the Coalition would look at?
Ryan
It’s not something that I’m personally in favour of. The Coalition has always allowed our Parliamentary members to make decisions, whether that is on policy or leadership. One of the founding principles of the Liberal Party is that Parliamentarians are not subject to any outside control and that’s something we’ve held dear too. We have always held dear to the fact every member of the Parliamentary Party can exercise their right of conscience, that there is no pledge. The Labor Party has had the opposite view. In the Labor Party they have all these problems because of the power the unions and factions have, and it’s not that long ago we were reading about massive branch stacking problems in the Labor Party in Victoria and NSW. In fact I think Attorney General Mark Dreyfus wrote a report into the Victorian branch of the Labor Party about a decade ago. So is this just going to lead to more branch stacking?
Lipson
Okay, we have less than a minute to go and I just want to get one comment from both of you. I can’t let the big news of the day, a Royal baby, go unmentioned. Any message Amanda Rishworth for the Royal family?
Rishworth
I’d just like to say congratulations to the Royal family; the birth of a new baby is wonderful. I know there’s some debate as to whether the baby is a Cancerian or Leo but congregations to them both.
Lipson
And Scott Ryan?
Ryan
As a first time father only 20 months ago, it will be the happiest day of their life. I feel a bit sorry for them doing it in the international glare of the media because it is such a special day. So my congratulations.
Lipson
A nice bipartisan note to finish the program on. Scott Ryan and Amanda Rishworth thank you very much for your thoughts and insights today on Lunchtime Agenda. Thank you very much for your company at home, I’m David Lipson.
(Ends)