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E & OE
STEPHANIE KENNEDY
Kevin Rudd was described by the US Embassy here in Canberra as abrasive, impulsive and a control freak. Mike Kelly is that how you found him when he was Prime Minister?
MIKE KELLY
Of course not at all. Kevin Rudd is a man who is incredibly capable – well and truly steeped in experience in foreign affairs. He’s out there doing the best for Australia’s national interest. I certainly found it a pleasure to work with him with my own interest in security matters and we continue to have those sorts of discussions. We couldn’t have asked for a better representative for this country.
STEPHANIE KENNEDY
Wasn’t one of the reasons why caucus dumped him because he was a control freak?
MIKE KELLY
Not at all. He is a well qualified Foreign Minister. This is a man who is out there aggressively pursuing Australia’s national interest. We should be grateful we have a man of his capacity in that role and I think when history judges our performance over these years, they’ll look back on his time as one of the best performances of a Foreign Affairs Minister.
STEPHANIE KENNEDY
Scott Ryan, would you agree with Mike Kelly?
SCOTT RYANI’m not sure which role Mike Kelly’s talking about. He talked about Kevin Rudd in ‘this role’.
I wasn’t sure if he was talking about Kevin Rudd as Prime Minister or as Foreign Affairs Minister. The truth is, when I woke up – on AM this morning – and I heard those particular descriptions of Kevin Rudd, I thought it was a leak from Mark Arbib or Bill Shorten. If what Mike is saying is true, Kevin Rudd wouldn’t have been the only first term Prime Minister rolled by his own party within three years in over 70 years of history.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYDo you think, Scott Ryan, that it’s damaging for relations between Australia and the United States?
SCOTT RYANI think the relationship between Australia and the United States is well founded. It goes back over a century now. I don’t think little things like this are going to cause a particular problem in a relationship that is deep and widely accepted across the community. It’s obviously not helpful when things that are intended to be kept secret are released into the public domain, but I don’t think it puts the relationship at risk at all.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYMike Kelly, any damage to the relationship between the two countries given that this is a fairly blunt assessment of a Prime Minister?
MIKE KELLY
In the twenty years I spent in Defence, I did a lot of work with DFAT officials and saw cables moving between posts. Often at a working level there’s a lot of gossipy input and elements to some of those cables – some of the things you wouldn’t see in a military document. You’ve got to expect this sort of thing in the passage between working levels in diplomacy, but there’s a wider issue here which is very disturbing. I was involved in a lot of contact with people in our deployed areas working with communities and human intelligence assets and it is deeply disturbing that they would put those people’s lives at risk through having this sort of information floating around out there. It is just entirely reprehensible, and not only does it put these people’s lives at risk, but also it discourages others from cooperating with us. So it is a terrible thing for them to have done and they should take a good, hard look at themselves.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYIn the US cables that were released overnight relating to Kevin Rudd, several sources within diplomatic circles were actually named. That must cause great embarrassment for them and for the US Embassy. Why would an embassy be naming their sources in cables?
MIKE KELLYThese sorts of cables fly around all the time, as I say. There are thousands and thousands of them of course. They don’t necessarily represent particular views of a government, and certainly, Hillary Clinton has been very forthcoming in her praise of Kevin Rudd. She has a tremendous working relationship with him. It’s not a question of reading too much into these things, but it is a question of making sure that security matters are taken care of, that classifications are respected, that the law is upheld.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYScott Ryan, two million people were privy to these cables in the US, and that’s why they’ve leaked out. Do you have concerns about the security that the US has in place, given that all these 250,000 cables have been made available?
SCOTT RYAN
I think we need to get to the point here. The reason these cables have got out is that someone who had access to them leaked them. There were a great number who had access to them that didn’t leak them. From an Australian point of view, I think the issue here is that we’ve had cables say things about senior government figures in the Labor Party that have been verified and stated by members of the Labor Party themselves. It’s not like the US Embassy was the only one to describe Kevin Rudd as a control freak.
MIKE KELLY
Stephanie this is going beyond the pale. It’s one thing for the Opposition to say ‘we shouldn’t allow for these leaks, they shouldn’t be happening’ and then at the same time be giving them credence and attempting to make cheap political capital out of them. I’ve often wondered whether or not there was a line that the Coalition wouldn’t cross. Given that this is the party of Godwin Grech and what we saw during that time, there obviously is no line they won’t cross and it is really reprehensible. So I’d ask them to also join with us in condemning these sorts of leaks.
SCOTT RYANI don’t think there’s any doubt about that, Mike…
STEPHANIE KENNEDYWe’ll just move on to the national curriculum. The Federal Education Minister met with the state and territory Education Ministers and they signed off on what they described as a historic agreement, but it won’t be implemented fully until 2013. Is that a disappointment, Scott Ryan?
SCOTT RYANWell Julia Gillard, as Shadow Education Minister and then as Deputy Prime Minister, promised a national curriculum in place by 2011. No amount of spin or obfuscation or contrived language is going to hide the fact that the various states and territories have said that this curriculum is not up to scratch, it needs more work and they’re not going to implement it until it’s fixed. That’s what today’s statement was about.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYMike Kelly.
MIKE KELLY
Look, there’s a process that is in play at the moment. We’re looking to achieve an outcome by 2013 in terms of implementation. It is essential that we get it right, and it is essential that we produce a national curriculum. I can tell you that all of our defence personnel out there – for one thing – among many Australians who now move across boundaries on a regular basis will be welcoming this approach with open arms. We must make it happen. ACARA, the body that is producing the curriculum is a body that involves and does include representation from the states and territories. They are out there widely consulting with parents and state authorities. It is important that we get this right, and that is what we are working towards.
SCOTT RYANBut Mike, no amount of process can hide the fact that the government promised it would be in place by 2011. It’s not. It’s been delayed by at least two years – that’s all we know now…
MIKE KELLY
The commitment was for implementation in 2013…
SCOTT RYANThe original commitment was for 2011.
MIKE KELLY… and it is a matter for the states and territories to determine the pace …
SCOTT RYANYou’ve had the education unions and independent schools and various other groups who rarely get together all condemning this. There is no point having a common curriculum if it’s just the lowest common denominator, and that’s what people are justly fearful of.
MIKE KELLYThere are many steps in the process of creating this national curriculum. The main and important thing is that we have extensive consultation. It will be up to the states and territories to determine the implementation of this national curriculum and we will see that happen in due course. It will be done effectively and with great care.
SCOTT RYANThere might be many steps, Mike, but you’ve fallen at the first hurdle.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYWe’ll just move on to the Murray Darling because it’s a very important area for Mike Kelly’s electorate, the electorate of Eden-Monaro. The Chairman of the Murray Darling Basin Authority resigned yesterday. Mike Kelly, is it back to the drawing board now?
MIKE KELLY
Not at all. We have a framework for moving forward on solving the problems that we have in the Murray Darling basin. It is very clear to us, and it’s very clear in the Act and the Coalition has also endorsed this, that the requirement is to include social and economic aspects and they are not mutually exclusive. A good environmental outcome for the river will have flow on economic and social benefits for downstream farming, for tourism and for the health of our estuaries for the fishing industry. We can get to that – we are investing $5.8 billion also in on- and off-farm irrigation infrastructure. We will make sure that social and economic factors are included in this Murray Darling Plan.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYScott Ryan, do you think the Water Act is workable, given the Chairman resigned because he couldn’t work under this Water Act when the government was interpreting it differently to the way he was interpreting it?
SCOTT RYANWell why the Chairman resigned, Stephanie, is that he was sick of being used as a human shield by Tony Burke. He had legal advice that he says he needed to comply with. The minister said he had different legal advice and he found that position untenable. What we should see is the legal advice so all Australians can look at it. More importantly, Labor ministers and Labor members where nowhere to be seen when this consultation period went on. This gentleman was a human shield for the government as they tried to hide behind more process but never actually coming to a specific arrangement.
MIKE KELLY
Mike Taylor has resigned because he disagreed with the government’s interpretation of the legislation, an interpretation, I’ll emphasise, that the Coalition agrees with – after all, they were the ones that began this process, therefore it’s not surprising that they do agree with that interpretation. So we will push forward with the process. It is very unfortunate that Mike Taylor experienced a lot of political skulduggery out there while he was conducting those community consultations. There were a lot of people out there…
STEPHANIE KENNEDYSome would say that he came under political pressure and he was Chairman of an independent authority. Scott Ryan, what’s your view on that?
SCOTT RYANYet again we’re seeing the Labor Government try and hide behind an independent authority – and this was written about in the press this morning…
MIKE KELLYAn authority you set up.
SCOTT RYANYou continually hide behind independent authorities. The government used Mike Taylor as a human shield because it didn’t want to cop the political flak…
MIKE KELLYYou were using him as a political punching bag…
SCOTT RYAN
It had Penny Wong using this as a political point in South Australia before the last election, and then Tony Burke realised the problem he had, so he sent Mike Taylor out there to take the political heat, and he doesn’t want to do that.
MIKE KELLYThe political heat that you were generating with all your misinformation and political skulduggery. It was reprehensible…
SCOTT RYANHang on. Are you saying that people in regional New South Wales, Mike, aren’t genuinely and legitimately concerned about the impact this will have on their communities?
MIKE KELLYCertainly after they heard your misinformation, and Tony Windsor referred to that today. He said there was a lot of political game playing out there that made life very difficult for Mike Taylor and you lot were responsible for that.
SCOTT RYANThat’s completely untrue, Mike.
STEPHANIE KENNEDYUnfortunately, we’ll have to leave it there, but thanks very much for joining us Scott Ryan, Liberal Senator for Victoria and Mike Kelly, Labor MP for Eden-Monaro.