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E & OE
(Greetings omitted)
LYNDAL CURTIS
Stephen Jones, is this anything other than disastrous for the Labor Party?
STEPHEN JONES
First things first. Congratulations to Barry O’Farrell. A great win for him and his party. For New South Wales Labor, yes, a catastrophic result. And we owe it to all of those it to all of those faithful Labor Party members and the people who have voted for Labor in this election and backed us for years to look at what’s happened, to listen to the message, not to gloss over any of the cracks, do a thorough analysis and get back out there and pull ourselves together and rebuild the party.
LYNDAL CURTIS
Scott Ryan, the Liberal Party has only in recent years come back from a situation where it was out of government in every state. You must know what it’s like to be at this low ebb.
SCOTT RYAN
I don’t think anyone in Australia actually knows what it’s like to be at this low ebb, Lyndal. Firstly, congratulations to Barry and the team. It was an enormous endorsement of Barry’s team, his approach and the integrity he offered New South Wales voters. But more importantly, it was a wholesale rejection of the Labor Party. And Labor and Stephen talk as if this is some long lost cousin that they haven’t really seen or had a lot to do with over the past few years. The truth is that New South Wales Labor is at the core of the Labor Party and as Anna Bligh said, it was a disease. And so this actually poses problems for Labor right around the country because their approach in their home state has been rejected.
LYNDAL CURTIS
Stephen Jones, isn’t there an element of truth to that, that it was not only New South Wales Labor, but in fact the New South Wales Right that’s been at the core of the Labor Party for a long time, and don’t you need wholesale changes not only at the state level, but sweeping right through the party?
STEPHEN JONES
Absolutely Lyndal. And far from being some distant cousin, the Labor Party is the party that I’ve belonged to for over 20 years. It’s a party whose values I am wedded to, and it’s a party that I want to see out there looking like, sounding like, behaving like the Labor Party that its members so richly deserve.
LYNDAL CURTIS
But change is often talked about, particularly dealing with the factions, but we’ve seen time and again people talk about change but the factions, the factional players and the pursuit of power for power’s sake come back into fashion?
STEPHEN JONES
When you hit a situation where less than one in four voters cast a primary vote for Labor in the New South Wales election, where you hit a situation where you’ve had a revolving door of Premiers over the last four years and serial policy disasters, it is incumbent upon each and every true Labor Party member in New South Wales to look deep within themselves, what’s gone on in the party and how we rebuild. It’s not going to be rebuilt by gimmicks. We have to listen very carefully to what’s gone on. We have to look at some of the public and not so public disasters that have led us to this point and go about it ruthlessly getting rid of the issues, getting rid of the problems, and the personalities that have led to this point to ensure that we can rebuild a party that the people who have traditionally backed Labor so richly deserve.
LYNDAL CURTIS
Scott Ryan, the Liberal Party has won in Western Australia. You had something more of a surprise win in Victoria, and now the win in New South Wales. What do you think have been the keys for the Liberal Party in rebuilding its brand and getting back into government?
SCOTT RYAN
Well, the Liberal Party in all those three states had a term of opposition where it was united, where it offered a real policy alternative, and where people became fed up with the same things they see in New South Wales Labor. Stephen talks about policy failures and a revolving door of leadership. They could be words that could be spoken about in Canberra. We’ve had policy failure after policy failure with home insulation and the pink batts, with the school hall blow-out, and we’ve had the revolving door of leadership. Anna Bligh called it a cancer. The truth is that what people don’t like about Labor nationally started in New South Wales, and that approach and that contempt for the voters of the various states and our nation.
LYNDAL CURTIS
But what work has the Liberal Party done on the ground? Is it a question of getting community candidates preselected? Is it a question of getting the machine right?
SCOTT RYAN
I think it’s a question of many things, Lyndal. In all those three states, as we’ve we have seen federally, we have a strong, unified team. Experienced hands and new blood. Community candidates, strong community networks. A successful political campaign is dependent upon many factors there is no magic bullet. When Stephen talks about facing up to the truth, New South Labor is going to have to learn, just as Australian Labor does, that there’s no simple solution to this, no single report – quickly shuffled under the table – is going to fix the systemic problems that exist in New South Wales and Australian Labor Party.
STEPHEN JONES
One thing that ties together all of the three newly elected Liberal Premiers and that is that they all come from the moderate part of their party. Some may say the left within the Liberal Party. That’s what puts them in sharp distinction from their current leader, Mr Abbott. He is not only a part of, but he’s beholden to the extremists within his party. If you want to see a point of distinction between the successful recipe that’s led the Liberals back to power in New South Wales and Victoria in particular, it’s getting rid of the extremists that Tony Abbott represents.
SCOTT RYAN
Stephen, look, you can throw around slurs all you want. And that is that is just yet another example of the behaviour of New South Wales Labor. Where you won’t engage on the issues, you just try to vilify people. It’s just that in the past few years in New South Wales, you did it to your own a bit more than you did it to the Opposition.
STEPHEN JONES
Scott, I don’t think I could’ve been more frank in my opening remarks on what needs to be done in New South Wales, so …
SCOTT RYAN
You can’t do a Peter Beattie and run away from this, Stephen…
STEPHEN JONES
… so far from trying to dodge the issue I think we need wholesale reform in the New South Wales branch of the Labor Party. Wholesale reform. And it starts today.
LYNDAL CURTIS
If I could move on to what, if any, federal implications there are from this. Stephen Jones, Tony Abbott is adamant that the carbon tax played a role. Barry O’Farrell mentioned it in his victory speech on Saturday night. Did Julia Gillard’s decision to propose the framework for a carbon price, including a carbon tax, in the New South Wales election campaign, if not in the campaign proper, have an impact particularly feed in to questions about whether Labor keeps its promises and whether Labor wants to put pressure on cost of living?
STEPHEN JONES
I represent ground zero for the steel industry and the coal industry in the Illawarra. They’re my seats. Those people live in the seat that I represent in Throsby and I visited and toured around many of the seats on Saturday. I can tell you quite honestly, not once did the issue of carbon tax come up. Not once. The issue is we have a 16-year-old Labor Government that’s been beset by scandal. That’s what people were voting for and against. Not carbon tax, that’s a complete red herring.
SCOTT RYAN
I was in the western suburbs of Sydney myself and I can tell you people did mention it. What the carbon tax issue goes to is two things to do with the Australian Labor Party. Firstly the complete and utter dishonesty where they will say one thing – in fact, anything – to win. ‘Whatever it takes’ in the words of their factional godfather. Then they’ll backflip after the election and hope people forget. If Labor wants to pretend that this carbon tax, its impact on the cost of living, the betrayal of trust in the Australian people did not have an impact, then they’re free to do so. But the Australian people will say otherwise.
STEPHEN JONES
Why did your party ban Tony Abbott from the Illawarra, from the Hunter, from Western Sydney? He was persona non grata. If it was such a biting issue…
SCOTT RYAN
It was a state campaign…
STEPHEN JONES
I agree it was, it was a State election campaign on State issues…
SCOTT RYAN
… Barry O’Farrell himself mentioned this on election night. It’s not just what they see in Sydney that makes people not like Labor – it’s what they recognise in the federal government. The complete lack of honesty, where you will say anything that it takes to win and then you will do something opposite afterwards and hope people forget. That’s what people don’t like, as well as the impact on the cost of living. It was a factor in the campaign, ads were run on it, and people spoke to me about it.
LYNDAL CURTIS
But Scott, usually there are very few federal implications from state campaigns, aren’t there? People vote one way in a state and they often vote a different way different way federally. They do make the distinction, don’t they?
SCOTT RYAN
I’m not challenging that at all, Lyndal. The point I made is what people don’t like in the Sydney-based New South Wales Labor Government, it is those traits that they don’t like in their federal Labor Government. It’s what Anna Bligh identified as a New South Wales cancer. It’s the lack of honesty. And it’s the lack of caring about cost of living. To that extent, this significantly matters for the federal Labor Government.
STEPHEN JONES
Scott, as somebody who lives in those areas I would back my expertise or knowledge of what people on the ground really think over you blowing in for an election-day party any day. But I tell you what, here’s what we will agree on, and that is the fact that over the next 18 months we are going to be locked in debate over the importance of pricing carbon and over the importance of having the most economically efficient way of dealing with climate change, and we welcome that debate. The debate is joined.
LYNDAL CURTIS
And is it a problem for Labor if people are genuinely worried about cost of living and they don’t believe they will be adequately compensated?
STEPHEN JONES
Labor is committed to ensuring that every cent that is raised from pricing carbon will be returned to compensate households, to assist businesses with their restructuring and ensuring that we ensure the polluters pay and we assist households through that change.
SCOTT RYAN
That is not what the Prime Minister said, Stephen. The Prime Minister only committed to returning some of the money in compensation and the rest of the money would go on industry development programs. Which is not giving money to help people adjust. It’s the government trying to pick winners and pick technologies. Stephen, if you want to be honest about this, you tell me what leaflet you put into people’s mailboxes in your electorate where you promised a carbon tax this term.
LYNDAL CURTIS
If I could move on quickly …
STEPHEN JONES
I will show you my first leaflet, Scott. Not a problem at all mate!
LYNDAL CURTIS
If I could move on quickly, Scott Ryan the National Broadband Network legislation is being debated in the House of Representatives. Isn’t it more likely that the government will have a win on this and isn’t the evidence from the last few months that the government is winning on getting its legislation through Parliament, it’s not being held up by the fact it’s in minority government?
SCOTT RYAN
I can only speak on behalf of the Senate, where we were late Friday night at about 10.10pm finalising legislation because Stephen Conroy brought in over 25 pages of amendments to the most significant public works bill since the Snowy Mountains Scheme in this country. This was a scheme designed on the back of a napkin when the original $5 billion plan fell over, when Stephen Conroy got on a flight with Kevin Rudd to Darwin. Ever since then, the minister has been playing catch-up with amendment after amendment, and despite the Opposition asking for it all last week, this bill was only brought on on Thursday afternoon with pages and pages of technical amendments. So the government is in a complete shambles over this legislation. And taxpayers should be scared about where their $50 billion is going to end up.
LYNDAL CURTIS
Stephen Jones, while the government got the legislation through the Senate, it’s likely to get it through the reps, it has been a problematic path over the last few days, hasn’t it?
STEPHEN JONES
This is a large and complex project and we make no apology for the fact that we’re out consulting with business and when technical issues – as Scott has mentioned – come up, we will make the appropriate legislative adjustments but the important thing that was passed through the Senate on Friday and we hope will get through the House of Reps today is an important provision which ensures there is uniform wholesale pricing. That means if you live in Sydney or you live in Dubbo your retailer pays the same for their broadband connection.
LYNDAL CURTIS
That’s where we’ll have to leave it today, gentlemen. Stephen Jones and Scott Ryan, thank you for joining us.