E & OE
HAYDEN COOPER
Andrew Leigh, we’ll start with you and we will in fact start on the health agreement struck yesterday. Is this truly significant reform, or is it just a couple of changes here and there?
ANDREW LEIGH
Absolutely it’s reform, Hayden. First of all, this is a big package – $16 billion of new funding for health, 1,300 additional beds – but it’s also structural reform. There’s two big challenges in the Australian healthcare system. One is that Australians spend too much time in hospitals and so our reforms are partly about trying to make sure that we make better use of GP services, that people don’t have to sit in emergency rooms – as I’ve done – for conditions that could be treated by a GP. The second is to try and make sure that we’re funding in order that we get the best deal out of our hospitals. So this activity-based funding really is critical in terms of driving reform in the Australian hospital sector.
HAYDEN COOPER
So tell me then, which plan is better – Kevin Rudd’s or this one?
ANDREW LEIGH
Well the plan that we’ve got, I think, is incredibly useful in terms of building a better healthcare system. I go out and talk to voters. They’re always talking to me about the importance of cutting down waiting times. This plan will do that. It will reduce emergency waiting times, reduce waiting times for elective surgery, make sure Australians can see the doctor they need so that Australians aren’t spending too much time in hospital and that makes the system more efficient.
HAYDEN COOPER
But it is far less ambitious than the former Prime Minister’s idea, isn’t it?
ANDREW LEIGH
Well I disagree with that characterisation. I think moving towards activity-based funding is critical and it’s also important to remember that there’s big transparency reforms in here as well. We’re the government that’s brought MySchool, a website which allows Australians to see how their schools are performing, MyChild, which lets you see how your childcare centre has places and the MyHospital website which also provides data on what hospitals are doing. That’s part of opening up the system so Australians can see what’s going on for the very first time.
HAYDEN COOPER
Senator Ryan, Tony Abbott of course has been very critical of this plan – in fact he says it’s the biggest surrender since Singapore – can you find anything in this deal that you like?
SCOTT RYAN
Well the truth is that everything Andrew said then sounds very good – he’s talking about less time in hospitals. Well the truth is, under Labor Governments, the problem is the amount of time spent in the waiting room. Despite the rhetoric from Labor over the last three years, the head of the AMA came out and said that there’s only been thirteen new beds – one, three – so what Labor’s done is add a couple of zeroes to it. Premier Baillieu was on radio in Melbourne this morning and he outlined how a lot of the extra money does not come forward until the end of the decade. We’re looking at 2017 here, before Labor actually delivers on their commitment to fund half of the growth in the hospital system. Yet again, this is just words. This is the third time we’ve had a commitment from Labor and there’s been no real action. This is nothing more than an agreement for more talks in the hope of achieving another agreement – it is not reform.
HAYDEN COOPER
But eight premiers and Chief Ministers have signed up to it, surely you can find it in your heart to give the PM a little bit of credit for that?
SCOTT RYAN
They’ve signed up to a Heads of Agreement. The Premiers haven’t been the ones out there talking about how this is apparently a revolution in healthcare. Julia Gillard’s desperate need for some sort of contrived and confected victory has driven her rhetoric on this, and the rhetoric is what Australians are tiring of. The buck was going to stop with the Labor Government. They were going to take it over. Last year it was the biggest reform since Medicare. Today it’s just all more rhetoric. The truth is, since Labor came to office there are thirteen new hospital beds – one, three.
ANDREW LEIGH
Well there’s two types of Liberals in Australia and I’m frankly a little disappointed that Scott – who’s a real ideas guy – has thrown his camp in with the constantly negative carping approach of Tony Abbott rather than the more positive approach which you’ve seen, for example, in Colin Barnett’s words. Colin Barnett yesterday described this agreement as an efficient, effective deal and he said ‘it’s a deal that I think is going to work.’ It’s that kind of ‘can do’ attitude that we’ve seen from some of the Liberal Premiers as well from their Labor counterparts. It’s important for Tony Abbott to realise that Australians don’t want this kind of carping attacking everything that’s going on. What Australians want is shorter waiting times, more hospital beds, more doctors, more nurses. That’s what the reforms …
SCOTT RYAN
You’re quite right Andrew – they do want all those. What they don’t want is a government that does not live up to its word. It is quite right for us to say that this government has always raised the bar and is constantly falling underneath it. You promised to take over the system – you promised the buck stopped with you. Last time was ‘the biggest reform since Medicare’. None of that has been delivered. You have constantly raised the rhetoric and never delivered on improved hospital services.
HAYDEN COOPER
We will come back to that issue of more beds but firstly, Senator Ryan, are you therefore disappointed that Ted Baillieu signed up to this agreement?
SCOTT RYAN
No, not at all. In fact if I go back to the 1990s when we had a lot of these reforms trialled and put in place in my home state of Victoria, it was the Labor Party that vilified the then Health Minister, the late Marie Tehan, and vilified the then Premier Jeff Kennett for introducing what is now called activity-based funding. Now, years later, Labor runs away from the accusations it made as it tries to implement that nationally.
HAYDEN COOPER
But if this agreement is worthless, why don’t you criticise the Victorian Premier for agreeing to it?
SCOTT RYAN
Don’t put words in my mouth there, Hayden. The point I’m making is that Labor has constantly raised the rhetoric. It has constantly raised the bar. Every time there’s a new agreement, or an agreement for an agreement, they somehow say it’s going to be a revolution in healthcare. In three years, they have delivered on none of it.
ANDREW LEIGH
That’s not right Scott. You said activity-based funding was a good reform and it is, and we’re going ahead with it. More investment in preventative healthcare is an important reform, and we’re going ahead with that…
SCOTT RYAN
… and you’ve got all the new bureaucracies. You’ve got Medicare Locals and no-one knows what they’re going to do …
ANDREW LEIGH
This is about giving local communities a say in their healthcare.
SCOTT RYAN
The truth is, Andrew, this is about giving bureaucrats more say, because there’s no detail whatsoever on how the Medicare Locals will be run and what their role is.
HAYDEN COOPER
Alright, just finally on this topic, I must ask Andrew Leigh – can you tell me how many more beds this deal will create?
ANDREW LEIGH
Well this deal will create an extra 1,300 new beds…
HAYDEN COOPER
Across the country?
ANDREW LEIGH
That’s right. That’s going to be in the states that have signed up, and that’s why Premiers from both sides of the political spectrum have signed on to the deal.
HAYDEN COOPER
And when will patients see those beds?
ANDREW LEIGH
You’ll be seeing the reforms coming through from the middle of the year, certainly things like the GP after hours line will be coming through then. The preventative health agency, the independent hospital funding agency which is at the core of the activity-based financing, and yes, the new beds.
HAYDEN COOPER
We must move on to other topics. One report in particular on the weekend about one of your colleagues, Andrew Robb, suggesting that he wants Joe Hockey’s job and, in fact, he’s told him so and said that he would do a better job in the Treasury portfolio than Mr Hockey would. What on Earth is Mr Robb up to?
SCOTT RYAN
Well I think Andrew put out a statement about that later in the day after what was a bit of a media beat up, I think.
HAYDEN COOPER
Would you like to see your Victorian colleague take a more prominent role in the Party?
SCOTT RYAN
I think Andrew has got a very prominent role in the Party, but I think the leadership and the senior group in the Coalition at the moment are doing a fantastic job as has been exemplified over the last six months.
HAYDEN COOPER
And that includes Julie Bishop?
SCOTT RYAN
Completely.
HAYDEN COOPER
The division, of course, is not restricted to one side, Andrew Leigh. We’ve got stories about Kevin Rudd in the Cabinet opposing the new health deal. Can this Cabinet function effectively while Kevin Rudd is in it?
ANDREW LEIGH
Absolutely Hayden. It can and it does. This is a classic Westminster Cabinet. One in which disagreements are aired within the Cabinet Room. Australians, I think, would be extraordinarily disappointed if they learned that all their Ministers walked in to the Cabinet Room and in a Kumbaya moment agreed to every aspect of policy. The fact that you have robust disagreements within Cabinet is how our democracy is supposed to work.
HAYDEN COOPER
That’s the excuse often given, though in this case the report suggests that Kevin Rudd actually walked out of the Cabinet when he…
ANDREW LEIGH
… and he’s made clear that that wasn’t the case.
HAYDEN COOPER
There is a poll out today from AC Neilsen which suggests that the ALP’s primary vote is down to 32%. That is pretty dangerous territory, isn’t it?
ANDREW LEIGH
Well Hayden, my previous job before entering politics was as an academic with the ANU. I actually did a study with Justin Wolfers looking at the predictive power of polls. It turns out that polls one, two years out from an election have exactly no predictive power. Any politician that spends their time looking at polls at this stage in the cycle is absolutely wasting their time.
HAYDEN COOPER
Sure, but isn’t it a current reflection of the way that the public feels about this government? What is the government doing wrong?
ANDREW LEIGH
Well the government is focussing on healthcare reform and focussing on rebuilding Queensland. It’s absolutely critical that we get roads, bridges, ports rebuilt in Queensland and that’s what we’re going to be focussing on in the next term of Parliament with the flood levy package and trying to get Queensland rebuilt. We’re doing the things that the Australian people tell us they want done.
HAYDEN COOPER
Scott Ryan.
SCOTT RYAN
Hayden, Andrew says, “Any politician that looks at them…” I think he’s being a bit disingenuous there. Any politician that ignores them and what they’re saying at this time is also being a fool. What this poll is telling us – yes it is a couple of years out, potentially, from an election – but what this poll is telling us is that the Australian people don’t have a great deal of faith in this government. The only thing keeping Labor in the race is their alliance with the Greens. That’s the only thing. Less than one in three people in this poll had faith in the Labor Party. The only thing keeping them in the race is their alliance with the Greens and after July 1 this year, when the Labor-Green alliance takes control of the Senate, the Australian people are going to see exactly what that costs them.
HAYDEN COOPER
Alright gentlemen, we must leave it there. Thanks very much for joining us.