Topics: Relations with Indonesia, public service sector, Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook
E&OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Kieran Gilbert
… with me now the Parliamentary Secretary for Education, Senator Scott Ryan and the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Matt Thistlethwaite. Well, Matt first to you. You’ve seen the response from the Prime Minister and the Government. I suppose from your perspective it’s a pretty reasonable response, is it? Or do you think he needs to go further, Mr Abbott, in trying to show contrition to Jakarta?
Matt Thistlethwaite
I think it is a reasonable response, what we do need to do now is focus on cooperation with Indonesia. The ties that bind us are the important thing moving into the future. If I was the Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, I’d prioritise getting up to Indonesia to see Marty Natalegawa and to work on cooperation and areas where we can cooperate, be it in security, in intelligence gathering, in trade, in investment, and in other areas. I think ours is an enduring relationship with Indonesia, we will be able to get over this, but the focus now needs to be on cooperation.
Gilbert
Will the Prime Minister have to go further on this? We spoke to Andrew Wilkie about this, about Obama making an express commitment to the Germans, that they would stop that practice of tapping the leadership’s phone as we saw with the Merkel incident.
Scott Ryan
Well I heard from the Prime Minister yesterday, and you played a clip of him just earlier this morning, where he made it clear again the priority he places on this most critical relationship in our region, and also that he won’t say and this government won’t say or do anything that causes any harm to that relationship. It is long standing practice that these matters are not commented upon publicly, by governments of both persuasions in Australia, and that is a practice that he and this government will be sticking to.
Gilbert
It was a bit of an understatement though, from Tony Abbott when he said we’ve got a very good relationship with Indonesia, but today is not the best day in that relationship, or not a good day in that relationship, I think the words were. That is quite an understatement, isn’t it?
Ryan
I think he qualified it slightly, I think he was being honest…
Gilbert
… it’s a really bad day, it’s potentially catastrophic according to the former Foreign Minister, Bob Carr
Ryan
Well, Bob Carr is known for hyperbole and that’s your characterisation, Kieran. The Prime Minister was stating his view, but he also…
Gilbert
… Alexander Downer had similar sentiments though.
Ryan
Alexander Downer is a private citizen now and Alexander Downer stood by this long standing tradition that these matters were not commented upon publicly by the government of the day. I note that yesterday John Faulkner, one of Labor’s Defence Ministers, also did not comment, and that is a tradition, that is a long standing practice, to which the Prime Minister has recommitted himself.
Gilbert
Do you think Prime Minister Abbott is going to have to go further and give a commitment to end this sort of practice, as Obama with the Chancellor Merkel case?
Thistlethwaite
I think what the Prime Minister needs to do is emphasise cooperation, as I said, I think he should seriously consider going to Indonesia, meeting with the President and emphasising the ties that bind us. We’ve had an enduring relationship with Indonesia, it’s capable of getting over this. There’s no point sugar-coating it, this has been a difficult day for the relationship, but we can overcome it and that’s through cooperation. We proved in government that we can overcome issues cooperatively with Indonesia. The visa on arrival issue with Iranians that were becoming a problem in boat arrivals; Bob Carr got on a plane, went to Indonesia and managed to negotiate a workable agreement with the Indonesians. There’s proof there that we can repair this relationship and it will endure in the future.
Gilbert
Tony Abbott’s been making that a big priority, as you know, he said he wants a Jakarta-focused foreign policy. Unfortunately at the moment it’s for all the wrong reasons, but you can hardly question his commitment to this relationship, it was his first visit, he’s been there a few times already. It’s hard for him to make it any more of a priority, and this was under the Labor Government watch.
Thistlethwaite
The megaphone diplomacy during the election campaign, the rhetoric and the sloganeering, particularly around the boat policy, and the problems that that resulted in for the Government when they came to office can’t be underestimated…
Gilbert
This is a problem that emanated from the Labor Government watch though, is that a point that needs to be factored in here?
Thistlethwaite
What’s important is cooperation, and under Labor in government, we emphasise cooperation and I’ve given you the example of Bob Carr going to Indonesia and working cooperatively with the Indonesian Government… That’s what the future’s got to be about.
Gilbert
I want to ask Senator Ryan about this point though, because that suggestion has been made to me by various people, including Nick Xenophon, I’ve got that interview with Nick Xenophon a bit later in the program. He was saying that the government needs to try and put some distance between it and this row over spying and highlight that it was the Rudd-Labor Government back in ’09.
Ryan
One of the ways we show respect for friendships with our critical neighbours is by not conducting them through the media. Matt there was trying to get a bit of partisan advantage out of this, but let’s go right back to the first Kevin Rudd prime ministership. We had the saga over the Oceanic Viking, we had the live cattle exports disaster, which was a real problem for our relationship with Indonesia. Prime Minister Abbott made it clear all along that this was his priority, he went there, it was his first visit, it was his first meeting. We are showing respect for that relationship and we are continuing to strengthen that relationship, as the Prime Minister has said, and we’ll continue to do that by conducting diplomacy in the way it should be done.
Gilbert
Actually I want to turn my attention, and our viewers’ attention now to the public service cuts. The Coalition had promised twelve thousand through natural attrition, reports today in the Financial Review suggest that you will review that number, given that various previous commitments from Labor will probably be see a number exceeding fourteen thousand removed from the public service. Is this going to be something you’ll have to backflip on?
Ryan
This is something the Finance Minister, Mathias Cormann, outlined yesterday. Labor’s secret plan to sack fourteen and a half thousand public servants, but not fund the redundancies, has left a lot of agencies in a bit of a financial hole – they didn’t have the resources. And at the same time, Labor was being so hypocritical running around accusing the then opposition, the Coalition, of its plans, yet its secret plans were even greater.
Gilbert
So will you cut this twelve thousand cut? Because that would mean well over twenty thousand public servants… how are you going to fulfil your promises?
Ryan
I think Senator Cormann said that they’ve become aware of this and this is an issue they are actually having to work through, it’s one of the many financial messes that Labor left for the incoming Coalition government.
Gilbert
Is this some hypocrisy from Labor that you’ve been critical of public service cuts from the Coalition and yet, as the Government’s pointed out, from your previous commitments, some fourteen thousand plus public servants to go.
Thistlethwaite
This was all disclosed prior to the election, we announced efficiency dividends over the last couple of years, and they were announced in the proper course. They were disclosed to the public through the Budget, through the Mid-Year Economic Fiscal Update and through the pre-election Fiscal Update. What’s incumbent now, upon the Government is to release the figures, to release the Mid-Year Economic Fiscal Update so that we all know that the true state and nature of the Budget is. You’ve undertaken further tax breaks for the rich, through the superannuation system, again going to have a big impost on the budget, it’s going to make it much more difficult for them to meet their commitments prior to the election. You need to come clean Scott, with the Australian people, what’s the delay…
Ryan
… It will come out in December…
Thistlethwaite
… MYEFO is due to be released, just release it, come clean with the Australian public.
Ryan
It’ll come out before it’s due. This is the problem with Labor, they made announcements about efficiency dividends, they were never achieved. They talked about how they were going to save money…
Thistlethwaite
… At least they were all announced…
Ryan
… But you never achieved them, that’s your problem… Matt’s just summed up Labor’s problem: we’ll make announcements but we won’t actually achieve them.
Gilbert
In terms of the Mid-Year Economic Update, why is Labor so hell-bent on having this this week. I remember Peter Costello over many years would have it well into December on occasions, it’s not always in November. Why has Labor got this bee in your bonnet over when this mid-year update is?
Thistlethwaite
Because the Parliament is being asked to make an important decision on lifting the debt ceiling, that’s a decision that effects not only this generation of Australians, but potentially future generations. When important fiscal decisions like that are being made, it’s incumbent upon the Government to release all of the relevant information so that MPs can make an informed decision, that’s all we’re asking the Government: release the information, so that MPs can represent their constituencies and make an informed decision.
Gilbert
Senator Ryan?
Ryan
The Treasury comes before Senate Estimates Committees tomorrow and Thursday and the Treasury can be asked questions in the full glare of the public spotlight. For Matt to be talking about raising the debt ceiling as being a problem is the ultimate hypocrisy, given that we’re cleaning up Labor’s debt mess.
Thistlethwaite
Well what’s the problem with the Treasurer releasing it to the Parliament? He’s accountable to the Parliament through the people.
Gilbert
If the Treasury’s Secretary’s going to do it anyway, through a different forum, why not do it through the Parliament.
Ryan
The document that’s released through the Treasurer and the Finance Minister, the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook, has got a timetable to be released, and it will be released according to that timetable, that’s the law we passed during Labor’s last budget mess.
Lispon
Gentlemen, we’ve got to go, Scott Ryan and Matt Thistlethwaite thanks again.
Ryan
Thanks Kieran
Thistlethwaite
Cheers Kieran
(Ends)