Topics: Labor’s border protection failures, the Victorian Government, aged care wage announcement.

David Lipson: Welcome back to the program and welcome to Senator Scott Ryan joining us from Melbourne and Labor MP Andrew Leigh here in the Canberra studio. First to you Scott Ryan, I want to ask you about Scott Morrison’s calls about behaviour protocols, is that something you endorse for asylum seekers?

Senator Scott Ryan: Well let’s put this in perspective. Scott [Morrison] raised an issue of concern because there are thousands of people on bridging visas in the community who haven’t been ASIO cleared, who haven’t had their identities confirmed and who are actually quite vulnerable. They’re being put into housing conditions that aren’t always appropriate, so this is a legitimate problem that the Opposition has raised.

Lipson: But do you endorse behaviour protocols as such?

Senator Ryan: I’m not familiar with the detail. We have behaviour protocols, I understand, in detention centres.

Lipson: What about police and the community being informed about asylum seekers living in the community, is that necessary?

Senator Ryan: When we are placing vulnerable people in the community, each community has different needs and I think we do want to let people who can help those vulnerable people be informed that there may be people in their community who need assistance. Let’s remember this group of people haven’t been security checked and haven’t been granted visas as refugees yet, they aren’t allowed to work and they don’t have the family and support networks that those who are granted asylum have. They can be vulnerable and I think in some circumstances it is appropriate to let people know that there are people in their community who are vulnerable like that.

Lipson: Andrew Leigh, why aren’t asylum seekers allowed to work when they’re on bridging visas in the community?

Andrew Leigh: David, this is a period in which people are still being assessed and I do welcome what Scott [Ryan] said, that asylum seekers are vulnerable people because it stands in such stark contrast to what Scott Morrison has been saying over recent months and years. This is somebody who urged his shadow cabinet to exploit the issue of Muslim immigration for political gain, who said that asylum seekers shouldn’t be flown to the funerals of their own children …

Lipson: I don’t want to get too much into beating each other up …

Leigh: It is important to have that context of where Scott Morrison is coming from.

Senator Ryan: You’re sledging Andrew. That’s not true.

Leigh: It is also, I think, refreshing when you hear somebody like Scott Ryan or George Brandis or Joe Hockey stepping back a little and saying, as I think all parliamentarians should, that all asylum seekers are vulnerable and should be taken care of.

Senator Ryan: David, that’s not fair on Scott [Morrison]. What George said, is for the detail of a policy, go and speak to the relevant shadow minister and that is an entirely reasonable thing to say. If I was asked a detailed question about our legal policy I would consult with our Shadow Attorney General. So Andrew don’t start sledging Scott, that’s completely unfair.

Lipson: Let’s not get too back and forward on that. I want to ask you, Andrew Leigh, about the Prime Minister on foreign workers. It is a different issue but it’s been all mixed up in this today as well. She couldn’t give a specific example of rorts of 457 visas this morning to Kieren Gilbert. Have any examples of rorts come across your desk at all?

Leigh: David, Brendan O’Connor will shortly be giving a press conference and go through specific examples there, but to give you some flavour of the concerns the Government has, we have concern, for example, about instances in which people appear to be using 457 visas not to deal with temporary labour shortages, but instead to, for example, bring in a family member. There have been claims the person will be paid a salary which takes them above the English proficiency threshold, but they’re then paid a salary below that. Let’s be clear, we welcome immigration. Modern Australia, since the very first European settlement, has been founded on immigration and I think 457s are a part of that, but we just need to make sure the system isn’t rorted.

Lipson: OK. A few other issues to get through, we don’t have a lot of time. I want to talk about Ted Baillieu who is holding onto his job very much at the moment, but this has come after he has referred some investigations, the airing of secret police tapes [sic] to anti-corruption investigators. Let’s hear what the Victorian Premier had to say on this a little earlier today.

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Lipson: These secret phone recordings and receipts reveal that Mr [Peter] Ryan, the deputy to Ted Baillieu in Victoria, his advisor was paid $22,500 by the Liberal Party after he quit the Deputy Premier’s office. That’s according to information published in the Herald Sun this morning [sic]. Scott Ryan, what do you make of this and how serious is this for Ted Baillieu?

Senator Ryan: I think what we make of this David, is that Ted Baillieu is willing to be measured by the standards he sets for others. He has referred this issue to the Independent Broad-based Anti-Corruption Commission he founded because he knows the best way is to lead by example. That is actually a measure of a man. Can I also say I have known the Premier’s chief-of-staff Tony Nutt for 15-20 years, he has served prime ministers and premiers, he is a man of integrity and I am proud to call him a friend.

Lipson: And what about as leader of the Liberals, the Government in Victoria? Is that position still tenable?

Senator Ryan: Ted is going to lead the party to the next election and I am confident that after a difficult couple of years where he has had to clean up Labor’s messes, where he has had nearly half a billion dollars stripped in Commonwealth funding, where he had $100 million stripped from hospitals over the last 18 months just in the remaining three months of the year, I tell you what, when Ted takes his case to the people, he will be re-elected as Premier, as will the Coalition.

Lipson: I just want to ask about aged care as well, it is an important issue – I did want to get your comments on Ted Baillieu but we’re low on time. Aged care, we saw this $1.2 billion boost to go towards wages, that will only add $1 per hour to workers this year and $1 next year, is that really enough to attract workers to the sector?

Leigh: Well I think we need to make a start David, recognising that the Australia of 20, 30 years on is going to need, not just more aged care workers, but is also going to need a more skilled aged care workforce. These are the people who take care of our parents and grandparents and will at some point take care of many of us. When we’re increasing those wages, the natural way to do it is through the enterprise bargaining process, which governs around three-quarters of aged care workers.

Lipson: Scott Ryan, is that the right approach to take?

Senator Ryan: What we have here is another big number thrown out there with no detail on how it applies; the only condition appears to be that you have to get the workers to join the HSU, which hasn’t proven good value to members in recent years, to tip money into Labor Party coffers to help their campaigns. This is yet again another empty promise with no detail and I note that most of the aged care providers have been very sceptical this morning of this because they don’t see an improvement of the aged care system.

Lipson: OK. We’re out of time. Scott Ryan, Andrew Leigh, thanks very much.