Ashleigh Gillon: The goal to return to a surplus is more of a political goal, he [Saul Eslake] suggests it is not crucial to the nation’s economy for a surplus to be achieved in 2012-13, is Labor too worried about the political fallout of not achieving that goal? Of course it would see the Coalition slamming you for broken promises if that was the case, should you instead be focussing on the economic reality?
Senator Trish Crossin: We’ve given a commitment that we will have the budget in surplus by 2012. Let me just say that the situation globally, the instability that we’ve seen in the economy in a global sense, is going to be a worry for a lot of countries around the world. We’re not buffered by that, we’re part of this as well. Global instability is another compromising situation we find ourselves in, but nevertheless, we’ve said that we are going to perform as best we can. We are part of that global solution, part of the global means by which we are going to tackle what is happening with the economy. We are not buffered by it, but we have still said we will be returning our budget back into surplus by 2012.
Gillon: Scott Ryan, we have heard Tony Abbott criticising Wayne Swan that it is very doubtful that the Government can achieve that surplus, but can the Coalition really criticise Labor over economic management considering that the Government is saying that at the moment they figure that the Coalition’s policies have created a multi-billion dollar black hole. Tony Abbott’s got a heap of savings he will need to make doesn’t he?
Senator Scott Ryan: There is no point giving Labor any credibility whatsoever when it comes to the budget situation. If you want credibility on delivering budget surpluses. Look what the Coalition did last time we arrived in office: 10 surpluses, billions of dollars in savings, no national debt. Labor is again just trying to divert attention from the fact that today we are seeing them plant a seed for yet another excuse for failure.
Gillon: We did hear it also from Mr Abbott on another area that has been highly contentious when it comes to economic management and that is the superannuation increase. Labor of course is going to increase the mandatory super contribution from nine per cent to 12 per cent, it is a move that has been slammed by the Coalition, but Mr Abbott says today if he becomes prime minister, he won’t be rolling back that fact, despite the criticism we’ve been hearing, including this from the National senator Barnaby Joyce this morning.
Showed a clip of Senator Joyce on AM Agenda.
Gillon: Scott Ryan, considering we’ve been hearing those sorts of arguments from the Coalition, why keep this change and also, how is the Coalition planning to pay for it when it is being paid for by the Government through the mining tax?
Ryan: That’s an important point Ashleigh. This is not being paid for by the Government through the mining tax. There is a small cost to the budget through a different tax rate on superannuation contributions, but this is something that is paid for by employers. Small business right across Australia – the constituency I’m responsible for – is actually going to face increased costs for every person they employ. As we did in 1996, we understand that while we don’t think this is a good idea and we are not going to vote for it, we are not going to try and repeal something that is so important to Australians planning for their own retirement. We don’t think it is a good idea, we won’t support it, we wouldn’t have done it, but we do need to respect the fact that Australians need some certainty in this area.
Gillon: Trish Crossin, do you acknowledge that businesses might find this change tough to cope with?
Crossin: Let’s just start by saying the Coalition can’t have six of one, half a dozen of another. They either want to support our policy on the MRRT, which includes a whole range of initiatives, one of those being increasing superannuation. Secondly, I understand it is a decision Tony Abbott made without even consulting one of their major frontbenchers in Andrew Robb. What we’ve seen is that the Coalition is completely all at shop here when it comes to what policy they are going to put up going forward with this MRRT. Can I also say that they’ve got a $70 billion black hole in their promised funding commitment and now if they want to just cherry pick the superannuation it will cost another $12.5 billion. The crucial question I think they’ve got to answer is where are they going to find the money to do this, how are they going to fund it? In terms of businesses response to superannuation increases, don’t forget the employees pay that as well, it is a further percentage that will come out of their salary. The benefit will be the tax breaks, we’ve grasped the reality and what we’ve got to do is look at baby boomers getting older, people being encouraged to make their retirement better, increasing superannuation has always been part of the Labor Party’s plan and I think business welcome it. We know people who run a business also retire and they want their tax breaks from this.
Gillon: Scott Ryan, if you’d like to pick up on that point about that report in The Australian today, it did suggest that Andrew Robb was excluded from the meeting when it was decided the Coalition wouldn’t role back these changes and he is furious for being left out of the loop. What is going in the Coalition’s ranks when you’ve got the shadow finance minister being excluded from a decision like that?
Ryan: Gossip in newspapers, Ashleigh, is of interest to people inside this building, not outside. More to the point about this particular policy is that this cost is not paid for by the mining tax. There is a small budgetary cost that pales in significance to the billion of dollars that are going to be charged to business. No worker pays this costs, it is an additional three per cent that every employer is going to have to start paying. It does represent, in future years, lower wages for workers. The Coalition has taken a responsible position on this which is to say we don’t think this is a good idea, but at the same time, we are not going to provide for such uncertainty in this particular policy area as to threaten to wind it back. But let’s not let the Government’s talking points overwhelm the reality here: the mining tax does not pay for this superannuation increase, businesses do and eventually workers pay for it through lower wages.
Gillon: Scott Ryan, what’s the difference between the carbon tax, and obviously that is creating uncertainty for business like you’re saying, but the decision to roll back these super changes would make and the Coalition is going ahead with that roll back?
Ryan: The carbon tax is an impost across businesses that costs jobs and we’re seeing a billion dollar investment in the western part of Melbourne go away today and announce that it won’t go ahead. This particular issue is important because it impacts millions of Australians in their own individual retirement planning, that’s why we’ve made the choice on this.
Gillon: Just quickly, we are about to take you live to the Opposition Leader Tony Abbott who is about to make a speech in Melbourne, but before we get there, I do want to bring up this issue of coal seam gas. We’ve seen the Nationals pushing for more oversight and tighter environmental controls on coal seam gas mining. The party has a new gas policy. It is basically demanding mining restrictions in residential areas, prime agricultural land and also where it may impact ground water. We’ve seen the Greens raising concerns with coal seam gas mining in recent times, they would like to see a moratorium on coal seam gas mining until we know more about the impacts. Trish Crossin, why isn’t the Government being more proactive on the sorts of research needed for coal seam gas projects. Do you see the credit in the argument that perhaps this should be put on hold until there is more research conducted?
Crossin: One of the ways in which the Nationals can get on board here and comply with our policy requirements of having a long hard look at the impacts of coal seam gas and how it would be regulated is to actually support the calls that Tony Burke has made in the last couple of weeks. We’ve got ministers from states and territories coming together on the ninth of December and remember this is predominantly a state and territory issue, but Tony Burke has also said that he is going to be ensuring that he can look at each of the coal seam gas water aquifers one by one. He wants better and stricter regulations so of course, we want the Nationals to support that position and assist us in order to achieve that.
Gillon: Scott Ryan, does the Liberal Party support the Nationals policy on coal seam gas mining?
Ryan: Well I think they’ve announced a few guidelines over the weekend. They’re launching a discussion paper. The Coalition’s position is we need to be cautious about risks to agricultural land and particularly around residential areas but coal seam gas has enormous opportunities for Australia. On this particular issue it is a state and territory issue and I am yet to be convinced there is more wisdom in Canberra than there is in Sydney or Brisbane.
Gillon: We saw overnight that Julia Gillard made a surprise visit to Afghanistan. Of course, over the weekend she was attending the G20 summit in France so she took the opportunity on the way home to make what was her second visit to Afghanistan as prime minister. While she was there she addressed our troops, acknowledging her visit coincided with the arrival of the bodies of three Australian soldiers.
Clip from Julia Gillard in Afghanistan
Gillon: Trish Crossin, after that awful attack we saw just over a week ago that saw three of our Australian soldiers killed and wounded several more, did it make you think twice about Australia’s commitment to Afghanistan, did it make you think it might be time to bring our troops home?
Crossin: I live in Darwin and we have a very heavy contingent of defence force personnel stationed in Darwin, quite a number of those, as you would know, are on rotation to Afghanistan very regularly. I fervently believe that the role we are playing in Afghanistan is vitally important. I know that the people I represent who work for defence and are based in Darwin, have that commitment as well. They train for that, they want to go over there, they want to actually take their skills and expertise to advance democracy around the world. I think it was absolution appropriate and timely for the Prime Minister to visit those troops and those defence personnel there. They needed that boost, they needed to know that the rest of this country is with them and thinking about them and we are eminently proud of the job that they do. I know that the people I represent are in that career because they want to be there, they want to be representing our country and they want to step up to the challenge of making a difference and improving lives for people in Afghanistan.
Gillon: And Trish Crossin, do you believe the timeline of handing over to the Afghanistan National Army is realistic – it is meant to happen in 2014 – considering the circumstances we’ve seem with people inside the ANA targeting Australian troops? Do you think that is now under a cloud?
Crossin: I’m sure that there are defence force personnel that have got a strategic background that make those timelines with some wise choices and decisions before them. That is the timeline we’ve committed to and we will try and achieve that. Circumstances may well change between now and then but that’s what we are committed to, that’s what our troops are trained to do, that’s what they want to do and it is what we as a country have signed up to do and we will see that task through.
Gillon: Scott Ryan do you think that timeline and that target is achievable?
Ryan: I think it is achievable. My personal view on this is that when it comes to technical decisions, such as when a handover takes place, smart politicians and community leaders take advice from experts. On this I think there is agreement right across the Australian Parliament that we’ll take expert advice from the leaders of the Australian Defence Force who are in the best position to know the capabilities of the Afghan National Army that we’ve been training.
Gillon: What about the mood of the community Scott Ryan? Have you noticed that in the community you’re hearing more and more views from the public that it is time for the troops to come home?
Ryan: I have to say Ashleigh, that’s not what I hear. What I hear is a legitimate expression of empathy, sympathy and grief whenever we have the tragic loss of an Australian soldier or an Australian abroad in these circumstances. What I also know is throughout the community, there is immense pride in the work that the Australian Defence Forces do and a belief that if they believe they are doing good, this is a project that is worth our support. I think we saw that with the reaction in the local Afghan community, the community that the Australian troops are over there supporting, to the absolute tragedy of the event of three soldiers being killed.
Gillon: Just finally before we go, I do want to touch why you are both in Canberra this week. Of course we have an extra Senate sitting week at the moment so that we can let the senators debate the carbon tax, we are expecting the carbon tax to go through the Senate later this week. Trish Crossin, when that happens, are you convinced that could be something that turns this debate around? That we could see the polls start to improve for Labor, or do you think it is not until this actually kicks in, in the middle of next year, that we might see a turnabout?
Crossin: Constantly the feedback I get is that people want us to tackle climate change, they want us to do something, they want the federal government to actually show some leadership in trying to address what is happening around them in the climate and you can see that no better than in Kakadu, again, and in island communities that I represent in the north. I think you’re right, for those people who are a bit wary about what our package comprises of, they don’t understand it, it’s very complicated, we’ve tried to put as much information as we possible can out there, but don’t forget, this tackles climate change and it is a major tax reform as well. I think that once people start to see some of those benefits flowing through next year, pensioners for example getting their payments earlier, the shift in the tax threshold moving from $6000 to $18,000 won’t kick in until the first of July, but once people start to see those changes, I think they’ll make a connection, ‘oh, that’s the Government’s package on climate change, that’s what they’re trying to achieve and this is our role in it as a consumer’.
Gillon: Scott Ryan we’ve heard criticism from the Coalition about the amount of time you’ve been given to debate the carbon tax legislation, but after so many years of enquiries into this, do you acknowledge, as the Government says, that you have actually been given more time to debate this than, for example, there was over the GST and Work Choices laws?
Ryan: Only Labor could try and construct an argument that we’ve had enough time to debate this. They guillotined debate last Thursday, they’re guillotining debate tomorrow afternoon, but as everyday goes by we are finding out more. Some research today says that electricity prices are going to go up by 30 per cent not 10 per cent. We’ve had a $1 billion potential investment in a methanol plant in the western suburbs of Melbourne not go ahead. We’ll still use methanol, we’ll just import it from China where they make it in a much dirtier fashion. The reason this Government is guillotining debate is that it does not want this carbon tax exposed for the damage it is going to do to Australian jobs, the economy and the average Australia pocket.
Gillon: Thank you both for your time ….