Topics: Indonesia, Coalition cuts, the ALP leadership contest and Paul Howes Senate-bid back-down
E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Tom Connell
…joining me to discuss this and other political matters in Canberra is newly minted Parliamentary Secretary Senator Scott Ryan and in Sydney Stephen Jones as well. Scott Ryan I’ll start with you. This is an interesting trip coming up for Tony Abbott and he’s spoken about how important it is. Has he backed himself into a corner? He’s talked about stopping the boats and that’s an iron-clad-guarantee and he’s saying that despite the different noise out of Indonesia with people saying they don’t like the turn back the boats policy.
Scott Ryan
What Tony Abbott said this morning indicates the way the Coalition Government wants to make this relationship more mature, that you don’t conduct sensitive conversations through the media, you don’t conduct what Tony rightly called megaphone-diplomacy. We respect Indonesia and its sovereignty but these are conversations that need to take place in a responsible fashion.
Connell
You can understand not wanting to use megaphone-diplomacy but just on the policy, we have seen the PNG solution have a significant effect which Labor introduced. You are going to introduce other measures like temporary protection visas, why don’t you wait and see how effective it will be? Why push this to a diplomatic flashpoint and take turning the boats off-the-table for now and see what happens, other than trying to push this?
Ryan
I think you’re making an assessment that isn’t entirely fair. If you conduct relations like the last Coalition Government which was based on mutual respect, where conversations were in private and one that meets the sovereignty and aspirations of both countries you’re making an assumption that’s not a reasonable one. Our promise to stop the boats has always been based on polices that worked under the Howard Coalition.
Connell
Turning back the boats has always been central…
Ryan
It’s been part of the policy. The Prime Minister made clear and Scott Morrison has said we will re-introduce temporary protection visas now that he’s been sworn in. These are other parts of the policy. There hasn’t been a silver bullet policy to border control after Labor broke down successful policies that worked under the Howard years, but we are not going to conduct conversations with our friends in Indonesia in public.
Connell
Well we will wait and see. Stephen Jones the point the Coalition has made is that one of the key issues that hurt the relationship with Indonesia was the live cattle trade the one that spotted suddenly. In hindsight that was one that soured the relationship and could have been handled better.
Stephen Jones
It’s important we have frank and open communication with the Indonesians about live cattle trade and other matters, but I think you’ve let the Coalition off lightly there. Scott himself said they don’t have a silver bullet, well that’s exactly what they went to the electorate with, a silver bullet on the issues of asylum seekers. What’s on offer is a wet rag, only 24 hours after being sworn in their three-word-slogans are crashing into diplomatic and political reality. The Indonesians have made it very clear that they will not agree with what Tony Abbott wanted to do throughout the election campaign. As for megaphone-diplomacy, well he might have had a word in Julie Bishop’s ear when she made the embarrassing gaff that “sometimes the Indonesians say things to her in private that they don’t say in public”. There’s a lot of patching-up that needs to be done by the Coalition in the coming days. One thing is clear if we are going to get a resolution of asylum seeker issues we need the cooperation of Indonesia, but you don’t get the cooperation of the Indonesians if you start poking them with a stick as you first act.
Connell
Alright we will wait and see, it promises to be an interesting meeting later in the month. I just want to go to the public service and the department heads that were sent packing yesterday. John Howard started his term in office with six going, Tony Abbott now three. Is it true to say your side of politics has politicised this issue by sending them packing?
Ryan
Not at all Tom, two of the three departments had substantial changes. The department, for which I’m partly responsible under Christopher Pyne, has changed is the Education Department and the Industry Department has been significantly larger, and that has been the result of changes to the administrative orders which were released yesterday. This is about getting the right people in the right jobs. We are going to work with the great Australian public service, we completely respect the work they do but changes were made to reflect the change in arrangements to government departments…
Connell
…but on those changes let’s look at who it was. Don Russell very close to Paul Keating, Blair Comley he was involved with the price on carbon and Andrew Metcalfe once said turning back the boats won’t work. It seems more than a coincidence, and you can add in Martin Parkinson who was on notice according to Joe Hockey, it’s more than a coincidence that these were the ones to go.
Ryan
The Department of Industry has substantially changed. It’s much larger and has a great deal more roles than it used to. The Department of Climate Change we were abolishing and that’s what one was responsible for. This is about getting the right people in the right jobs and it’s about making sure we have a calm, methodical approach to government and that Coalition policies start from day one.
Connell
Stephen Jones, on the departure of Martin Parkinson, it’s been reported that’s something that has been done reluctantly, but given that pledge by Labor to be in surplus, which didn’t come to bare at all, somebody in Treasury needs to be responsible don’t they?
Jones
I think Martin Parkinson is a fine public servant, as are the other two who have fallen victim to the day of the long knives. What the very clear message is that’s been sent out by the government is this, if you have an independent view on Climate Change, the economy and the environment then here’s the door. It doesn’t send a good message to the public service and a lot of damage has been done in their first act. As far as Treasury goes, any leading economist in the country will tell you some of the brightest minds and the best economic modelling gets done out of Treasury and it has been done for decades. They are independent and won’t be leant on by their political masters and if Treasury can’t get their economic forecasting right, that simply says there’s a lot of uncertainty in the economic environment, which is a message the Labor Government was talking about for the last 18 months in office.
Connell
Stephen I’ll move on to the Labor leadership, now it’s a familiar topic and I’ll get your thoughts in a second about the contest between Bill Shorten and Anthony Albanese. We’ve heard about how positive we want this campaign to be, but there’s been a few sly words. Anthony Albanese saying he at least can say he’s been loyal to both Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd, a reference to Bill Shorten’s involvement in the reinstatement of Kevin Rudd and his dismissal back in 2010. We heard from Bill Shorten that Anthony Albanese has always been a Rudd-backer. Is this an example of how it will turn a little bit nasty when you have such a public contest for this leadership?
Jones
I don’t think it will turn nasty at all, I think you’re reading too much into some side comments. You can take Bill and Anthony on their word and I’ve been up close to them for the last week. What you can see is we are going to have a very clean, civil discussion and I think it’s a fair one. If you compare them to the knock-them-down during the US primaries, they you will see this as a very civil and a very good discussion in the Labor Party. Whoever wins, you know the party can lock into behind them.
Connell
Scott Ryan, having spoken with the rank and file at these meetings, they were all pretty excited to be having a say in this, can you see a time and place when the Liberal Party might involve these rank and filers?
Ryan
Let’s look at why the Labor Party has turned to this and it’s because they’ve had a dysfunctional caucus for the last six years, where one side was trying to tear down the other. I come from Victoria where we instituted voting for their local candidates, party plebiscites, and that has led to greater party involvement. There’s no member interest in a system like this, we’ve always thought that was the role of Parliamentarians…
Connell
…so you can’t see it happening any time soon for the rank and filers?
Ryan
We haven’t had the same problems that the Labor Party has had…
Connell
…but regardless of what’s happened though?
Ryan
I don’t think you can divorce what Labor is going through now from the last three years.
Connell
I’m asking separately if it’s a good thing.
Ryan
I actually think having party plebiscites for pre-selection is good. I’m happy with the way things are at the moment with one’s colleagues deciding on the leadership of the Coalition.
Connell
Fair enough, you’ll have to convince your rank and file over that…
Jones
…I’ve got to say a courageous comment. Have a peer over to Spring Street and see what’s going on inside your party. A courageous comment talking about one political party tearing themselves apart, not a pretty sight with what’s going on over there in Victoria…
Ryan
…you’re from NSW Stephen and that’s the gold standard for chaos and tearing down leaders.
Jones
…oh, tune it up.
Connell
Alright we will put the boxing gloves down. Stephen Jones, I wanted to mention Paul Howes. It was pretty courageous stuff today in saying he won’t run for this Senate position which isn’t even available yet, which shows he’s pretty keen. He said he may need to be even more faceless in the next few years, saying the involvement of the unions is a bit too strong and noticeable when it comes to Labor.
Jones
Oh good on Paul today for coming out and putting the speculation to rest. You are right, there isn’t a vacancy and I don’t anticipate there being one in the near future. There’s been a lot of speculation about what Paul would do in relation to seats but I think Paul has done the right thing. He knows that he’s got a tough job ahead of him because not matter what Tony Abbott said during the election campaign, we know that IR is in their sights. The union movement needs good, smart, articulate leaders like Paul in there on the front line defending their members against what Tony Abbott has got in store.
Connell
Alright gents we have to leave it there and I know you will say, of course, that Tony Abbott won’t make any changes outside of his mandate, so I’ll just paraphrase you there if that’s okay Scott.
Ryan
Thanks Tom
Connell
Thanks for your time.
(Ends)