Topics: Higher education and ALP leadership debate/contest
E&OE………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Lyndal Curtis
…Scott, Christopher Pyne when he way Shadow Education Minister and before the election said the Coalition had no plans to increase fees or cap places. Do they count as promises you can’t break?
Scott Ryan
That’s exactly what he said today Lyndal. We have always said and Christopher Pyne has always made clear that we have three objectives in this area and one of which is to reduce red-tape. Secondly, it’s to support education as an export industry and both of those were spoken about by your previous guest. Thirdly, we have to maintain quality because that’s what the export industry is based on. We have a great reputation in the education sector and we have to maintain that if we want it to grow. What has been announced is a review to ensure quality is being maintained.
Curtis
Belinda Robinson from Universities Australia said she thinks it’s too early to judge whether the uncapped system is successful because the first students under the system are yet to graduate, does this review come a little too early?
Ryan
I think it’s responsible to review a policy at any time, particularly when a new Minister comes to office. But I’d also like to point out that despite Labor’s hysterical claims about Christopher Pyne today, this is exactly what Kim Carr said early in the job when he became Minister for Education. He expressed the same concerns. Mark Butler expressed the same concerns about maintaining quality on Adelaide radio today and on-top- of- that Labor cut $3.2 billion out of Higher Education only a few months ago. We are doing the responsible thing by reviewing the system to ensure we can maintain quality because that’s what Australian students expect and that’s what the export industry needs.
Curtis
Sue, Scott is right. When Kim Carr came back to the Portfolio he did raise questions about the impact of the uncapped system on quality. Is this now a bipartisan position?
Sue Lines
I think raising a question and conducting a review are two very different things. If Christopher Pyne is so concerned with quality, then let’s look at quality and at teaching. Reviewing a demand driven system does mean the Coalition wants to go back to a capped system and that means cuts. Christopher Pyne is all over the place on his, first he says he’s not going to move to a cap-system, and then he’s says he’s going to review it and a cap-system is a priority for him. It’s chaotic, I appreciate the Government is new but Christopher Pyne has been the Shadow Minister for Education for a long time and we’ve had an agreed position on education and now suddenly he wants a review on quality. There are other ways to look at quality, this is a bit chaotic.
Curtis
Does a review determine the outcome though? Can’t you review something just to access if it’s working or not?
Lines
I’ve never seen a review that hasn’t changed direction. Christopher Pyne has said he wants to look at a demand driven system. If we go back to a capped system that will mean cuts to funding which will diminish quality, of course the other area he’s attacked is student services and certainly if we see the fee students pay taken-out, universities and students are going to lose out. It will be a real test for the Nationals who have always supported such a thing. I wonder whether in Government they will stick with the Government or oppose a reduction or taking away of the student fee that provides vital services in our universities.
Curtis
Scott, what is the Coalition’s problem with the student amenities fee? It’s not like voluntary student unionism, which goes towards the student union, it goes to the university doesn’t it?
Scott
The universities hand it over to the unions as they have for decades, the name is irrelevant here. The Coalition’s stance on this has been the same over decades. We have voted against this in Parliament. As Christopher Pyne said this morning, we oppose compulsory levies that are imposed regardless of their income, they’re levied on students regardless of their ability to use the services. For example, you might have remote part-time students doing a course by correspondence who pay the same student levy fee as those who go to university everyday regardless of their income levels. But he has also said there are other priorities in this portfolio. But just to go back to a point made earlier – I’m not going to be lectured by Labor about funding cuts to education when in the budget chaos earlier this year Labor stripped $2.3 billion out of the sector.
Curtis
I might just get the views of both of you as to what university education means today. Scott, is university education no longer an elite thing but more these days a necessity in an economy where high skill jobs are the norm?
Ryan
We need appropriate education for people and their skills that’s appropriate to the economy. Since the opening up of university education many decades ago many people, me included, have had opportunities that otherwise may not have. We also need to make sure we have opportunities for people in vocational education and other non-university forms of education. We can’t say this is the be-all and end-all of education because there are other skills and trades in the community that are equally valuable.
Curtis
Sue, what’s your view as to the value of university education in today’s world?
Lines
I believe university education needs to be valued and highly regarded and certainly what the Labor Government tried to do was put in targets for universities to meet, particularly for disadvantaged students. So it is interesting to me to see Christopher Pyne throw that out as well and we go back to a situation where only the elite and those who can afford it can go to university…
Curtis
…although Sue, he has said today that he has no plans to bring back the cap and as I mentioned before that was a promise he made before the election too.
Lines
Sure but in August he released a Press Release saying he was interested in pursuing a process of full fee paying domestic students, now that really does put a barrier in for low income families or the disadvantaged to be charging high fees. He certainly hasn’t ruled that out and he said that as late as August.
Curtis
Scott a quick response.
Ryan
Those places under the Howard Government were in addition to the places we had available for HECS and the program that was called HELP. Let’s be correct here, those places were not a substitute for Australian places they were on top of. There’s always been an inconsistency, people from overseas having a full-feeing place in university in Australia but we prohibit domestic students from doing it.
Curtis
We might move on now. The potential Labor leaders held their first debate last night. It was a chance for Anthony Albanese and Bill Shorten to lobby party members ahead of the rank and file vote. Mr Shorten also gave a speech in Melbourne today where he pledged to end his factional activities if he becomes Labor leader. He also says caucus members won’t be expected to vote along party lines.
(Clip: Bill Shorten)
Curtis
Sue, Mr Shorten says he would end his factional activity if he became leader. Should it go further? Should it be when you get a spot on the frontbench you step away from your factional activities as well?
Lines
I think what we are doing in the Labor Party is in complete contrast to the gagging that’s going on in the Government at the moment. We are doing an open, transparent discussion that’s being reported well in the media, we are choosing our leader not only where members of the party get a vote in that but the debates are public and the media is following it. So all Australians are getting a real opportunity to get a good understanding of a potential future Prime Minister of Australia, contrast that with the gagging that’s going on of ministers hiding boats, the decree of Tony Abbott today that Ministers can’t go on radio or TV without his express permission, it’s real chaos. The Labor Party is out there saying, warts and all, this is who we are and we’re putting our leaders up to been seen and it’s reenergising everybody around the ALP.
Curtis
Can I get your view on Labor people stepping away from the factional activity not only as leader but if they get a position on the frontbench?
Lines
Difference of opinions exits in the Labor Party as it does in all political parties and views. Factions are a part of the Labor Party and leaders generally do step away from their factions and, indeed, most do as well because they are committed to their Portfolios, so things are changing and this is something new for Labor to be out there and everybody will get a say. It’s exciting and we will have to wait and see what happens.
Curtis
Scott, if I could get your views about what Sue has said because there was an article in the Financial Review saying and email has gone out to ministerial staff that media requests have to be run past the leader’s office. It’s not unusual at the start of a term but do you think a more centralised control of the message will stop you getting the message you want out?
Ryan
Well there’s been no change to Coalition arrangements whatsoever Lyndal. I didn’t seek permission to be here, it’s just another Labor beat up. With respect to what Bill said, so to get it right, if Bill’s faction gets him elected leader he’s going to make sure he’s no longer factional – this is farcical. Sue mentioned the Labor Party are showing themselves warts and all, well there are plenty of warts. We are getting on with government and we are implementing the pledges we made, while Bill’s organising Dorothy Dixers for himself at debates.
Curtis
Isn’t this Labor trying out a new method to find a leader by involving the wider membership, this happens in other parts of the world – in the US both parties have primaries to choose their Presidential nominees.
Ryan
In Victoria and most states in Australia we have plebiscites to select candidates for Parliament. Labor is introducing itself to democracy, but let’s remember why they are doing this, it’s because of the chaos of the last three years where you would wake up every day wondering who the Prime Minister was going to be by the time of the evening news, and that’s why Labor is doing it.
Curtis
Sue, do you think this type of contest will see an end to the troubles over future leadership? Or is that handled by the way they conduct themselves as leader?
Lines
We now have a rule that says now we know who the leader is, I’ve been talking to branch members and I’ve surveyed branch members and they are excited to be involved and they’re very clear about the sort of leader they want to see. So this is part of what we will do in the future, it’s open and transparent, and of course Labor has always had local voters to choose Members of Parliament and so on. This move is bold but we should expect this move of all political parties in the future because if we are doing it, then why aren’t other major parties doing it? Everyone in Australia can look at the calibre of Bill Shorten and Anthony Albanese and make up their own minds because the debates have been televised and there’s been a lot of commentary around it and it’s been very positive, and you’re seeing the sort of leader that will be leading the party to the next election.
Curtis
If I could finish with you Scott, you were sworn in a week ago as a Parliamentary Secretary. What are your responsibilities now?
Ryan
I’m Parliamentary Secretary for the Minister to Education and I’ve meet with the Minister on a few occasions and we are in the process of working out where I report to him as a Parliamentary Secretary, I’ll be focussing on some issues of Youth Affairs, Science and Maths in the curriculum and some of the issues around school infrastructure amongst other areas.
Curtis
On that note Scott Ryan and Sue Lines thanks for joining us today.
Ryan
Thank you Lyndal
Lines
Thanks Lyndal
Curtis
That’s all for Capital Hill today. We will be back tomorrow, until then good night.
(ENDS)