Topics: War in Afghanistan, interest rates, second airport for Sydney
JULIE DOYLE: Hello and welcome to Capital Hill, I’m Julie Doyle. The so-called fighting season has begun in Afghanistan, with a series of coordinated attacks by the Taliban. The Foreign Minister has described the attacks as “discouraging”, but Australia is still on-track to withdraw combat troops by the end of 2014. At home, there is more discussion about interest rates and the behaviour of the banks. Joining me today to discuss these issues we have Labor MP Jill Hall in Sydney and Liberal Senator Scott Ryan in Melbourne. Hello to you both.
Now before we get started, as I mentioned, there have been a series of Taliban attacks across the Afghanistan capital Kabul. Let’s hear from the Foreign Minister Bob Carr.
<Clip from interview with Bob Carr>
Jill Hall, to you first, you’ve said previously that you’ve had concerns about Australia’s mission in Afghanistan. These attacks that we’ve seen, do these heighten your concerns about the mission?
JILL HALL: Well I have had concerns in the past and really nothing has happened to change my concerns. We’ve been in Afghanistan for a very long time now. Afghanistan has got a long history of conflict and I really don’t believe anything has changed terribly. But I do support the Government’s decision to stay there until 2014. I would always be supportive of us withdrawing earlier, but I do support the comments that Bob Carr made about an Australian presence being there to help with humanitarian and education and other types of issues within the country.
DOYLE: On that 2014 deadline though for the withdrawal of combat troops, do you think from these attacks that we’ve seen, that Afghanistan, the local forces there, would be in a position to take control? Will they be ready to do that?
HALL: I don’t know whether 2014, 2016, 2020, there will ever be a situation where the forces are really ready to take control in Afghanistan. We are doing everything in our power to support the forces, the Afghani forces, to reach that situation, and that’s the goal of the Government.
DOYLE: Are you worried then at all that Australia may end up in this much longer than 2014?
HALL: Oh I hope not. I hope not. I just look at the history of the country, it is a country that has had conflict over many, many decades and centuries for that matter. I am not sure it is an issue that can ever be resolved. I know that Australian troops, and I was speaking to Steve Georganas who has just come back from Afghanistan today, and he was over there with the military. He said that our soldiers are doing a fantastic job. I know that our soldiers will be doing a fantastic job and they have my absolute 100 per cent support. But at the end of the day, I don’t know what we will achieve by being in Afghanistan. I think both sides of the Parliament support our troops being in there till 2014, maybe the Opposition would keep them there longer, but my concern is, will the issue ever be resolved because of the history of the country and the enormous problems that exist in Afghanistan?
DOYLE: Scott Ryan, I will bring you in there. Do you share those concerns we have heard from Jill Hall about the mission in Afghanistan? Do you think things can be achieved here?
SCOTT RYAN: Well I note that Jill said she supports the troops, but I do have to respectfully disagree with her saying she doesn’t know what has changed. I think the life of people in Afghanistan has dramatically improved since Western forces, including Australians forces, intervened and removed the Taliban. I think the lives of women and girls in particular have dramatically improved. I think the world is a safer place because Afghanistan is no longer a base for international terrorism and I think all of those are incredibly important achievements and they are an incredibly important part of what we are doing over there.
DOYLE: Do you think though the deadline of the withdrawal of the combat troops at the end of 2014, these attacks that we’ve seen recently at the start of the so-called fighting season, does it worry you that the Afghan local forces won’t be ready by that deadline?
RYAN: Look, violence in a nation where Australian troops are and humanitarian groups are, always worries me Julie. But I think the Australian troops are doing a fantastic job. On whether or not the Afghan troops and security forces are ready, we take advice from our senior military commanders in the field. I think the Australian troops are doing an incredible job, they are also doing a very important job. They are making a meaningful difference to the lives of the people they are protecting and they are mainly Afghans.
DOYLE: Jill, you can go ahead.
HALL: Could I just come in on that. I agree that our troops are doing are fantastic jobs and I agree that the lives of women have been changed, and children, have been changed to a degree. But you only have to listen to the media reports this morning that say two weeks after Australian troops are gone, things will go back to the way they are. The question is, can we stay in there indefinitely? I don’t think so. In the long-term is it really going to make a difference? That is the question I ask. I am supportive Scott, I really am. They do a fantastic job. Not only involved in the conflict, but providing support to the community, the humanitarian work that they do. We are very, very fortunate to have such wonderful, wonderful troops over in Afghanistan, but I do wonder about where the whole conflict is going long-term.
DOYLE: The Four Corners program is having a look at this conflict tonight and they speak to retired major general John Cantwell. He makes some comments about the human cost. He says he is concerned it is not worth the lives that are being lost, this conflict. Scott Ryan, to you firstly, what do you say to that?
RYAN: I will watch that with interest tonight Julie. A single loss of life is a tragedy; it is an Australian family that has lost a member. But I think the job the Australian troops are doing is a worthwhile job. Preventing Afghanistan being used as a base for international terrorism again is an incredibly important job. It makes a difference to Australia’s security. But I will watch the program with interest.
DOYLE: Let’s move onto another topic now. Looking closer to home, the Opposition’s finance spokesperson Andrew Robb has defended the ANZ’s decision to put up rates independently of the Reserve Bank. Let’s hear from Mr Robb and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott.
<Clips from Andrew Robb and Tony Abbott>
Scott Ryan, do you agree with Andrew Robb.
RYAN: I was with Tony this morning Julie, and I think Tony made the point that the banks can defend themselves. The reason interest rates are going up from the banks and why there is an increased spread between interest rates now is because the Government is borrowing so much money.
DOYLE: But Andrew Robb did say this morning, he did say, that they wouldn’t be putting up their margins if they weren’t suffering a problem. He said they are responsible citizens and the books, in the end, will be on the table. So he was offering a defence for the banks there.
RYAN: I don’t think that is a fair way to characterise it Julie, it was an in-depth interview. Tony made the point that the banks can defend themselves and they are big enough to defend themselves. The real pressure on interest rates in this country is coming from the Government borrowing enormous amounts of money. It is an iron law of economics. The Government is running massive deficits and if the Government is in the money market borrowing $100 million, as it is, that is going to force up the cost of borrowing and the cost of money and that is exactly what is happening.
DOYLE: But the Reserve Bank, in its last monetary statement, the Reserve Bank said earlier this month, the margin wholesale funding costs are tending to decline.
RYAN: As I said, as Tony said this morning, and I was with him, the banks can defend themselves on their particular decisions, but the cost of money, and the Government borrowing $100 million a day, is making interest rates higher than they otherwise would be if it wasn’t borrowing that money.
DOYLE: Jill, I’ll bring you into this one. The ANZ is entitled to take the action that it sees fit, is the Government just beating up on the banks here because they are an easy target? It is what people like to hear?
HALL: Well I don’t think so. We have made some legislative changes so as the people can switch banks without fees, but we have to look at the banks and the situation that exists currently. The Government supported the banks during the Global Financial Crisis. The cost of borrowing money for the banks now is lower than it was, their profits are at a record high, yet they are still increasing the interest rates. I think they are unconscionable, all those average Australians families out there that have to pay their mortgage each and every day that are suffering because of the actions of the banks.
DOYLE: Now Andrew Robb said today that you wouldn’t want banks to be making a loss though before they put up their margins. You want a strong banking sector.
HALL: Absolutely, absolutely you want a strong banking sector, but every time we hear their profit statements it is up, up, up, up, up. So I really think there has got to be a happy medium. I think that banks have to take account of their customers and only today, in my local newspaper, The Newcastle Herald, it looked at the number of bankruptcies that have occurred and high interest rates contributed to those bankruptcies and I don’t think Andrew Robb should be out there defending the banks. The banks play a very important role in our community, we rely on the banks, as such, they are a corporate citizen and they have a responsibility to their customers.
DOYLE: Let’s move onto another bone of contention and that’s the need for a second Sydney airport. Now Warren Truss, the Nationals leader has said today there is no need to rush and has suggested that other airports could share the load. That prompted this response from the Transport Minister Anthony Albanese.
<clip of Anthony Albanese>
Scott Ryan, he is pushing more international flights to Melbourne and Brisbane, that is not a long-term solution though, is it?
RYAN: Well Julie, I’m from Melbourne and Melbourne is not that much smaller a city than Sydney and so I think more traffic coming to Melbourne is a good thing. We’ve got a very large airport, and I’m grateful for the planning that was done by state government 40 or 50 years ago. Look, Sydney will eventually need a second airport and I know the discussions are underway. I also know from my Sydney colleagues that the burden of noise in Sydney and airport noise has been a long-term issue and the Howard Government changed some policies there to ensure that burden was more fairly shared.
DOYLE: Well Barry O’Farrell, the NSW Premier, has talked about the fact that he doesn’t want a second Sydney airport. He has talked about Canberra being a possibility and then having a high-speed rail link to Sydney. What do you think about that Scott Ryan? Your colleague Joe Hockey thinks it is an absurd idea.
RYAN: Being from Melbourne I will be careful how I judge what the needs of another city are. But I don’t think a two or three hour rail journey is necessarily going to relieve the pressure on Sydney airport because it is a major international gateway to Australia.
DOYLE: Jill Hall what do you think about that option that has been proposed by Barry O’Farrell of Canberra taking the burden there?
HALL: I think Barry O’Farrell needs to step up to the plate. As long as we don’t have a second airport in Sydney it has got an enormous economic cost to our state, to Sydney. The idea of our second airport here in Sydney being in Canberra has been discredited by the review that has just been undertaken. There’s been talk about Badgery’s Creek, but politics has seen that pushed aside, and now there is Wilton, which is a really viable option.
DOYLE: And that’s where we will have leave it I’m afraid. Jill Hall and Scott Ryan thanks for joining me.