Topics: Gonski Review into education, press freedom
Lyndal Curtis: Hello and welcome to Capital Hill. I’m Lyndal Curtis. The Government’s formal response to the Gonski Review of education funding is still some weeks away, but the Prime Minister is trying to calm some nerves in the independent schools sector telling it today every independent school will see a funding increase under Labor’s plans. The Coalition is still far from committed to the reforms Gonski recommended and is questioning whether spending the extra money required is actually doable. Joining me to discuss the day are two senators, Labor’s Glen Sterle and the Liberal’s Scott Ryan.
We’ll go first to the education debate and speeches today from the Prime Minister and Opposition Leader.
<clips from Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott>
Glen, the Prime Minister today promised every independent school in Australia will see their funding increase under Labor’s plans. She said, ‘This plan will lift school standards not school fees.’ Isn’t the Prime Minister just increasing the costs that will come from the Gonski plan?
Senator Glen Sterle: Not at all Lyndal. There is a lot of review going on, a lot of talk going on. The Prime Minister has made it very, very clear she is still consulting – consulting with independent schools, consulting with the school communities and consulting with states and territories. Not at all, in fact, the sooner we bring it on, the better.
Curtis: How much does, what was called, Mark Latham’s hit list for cutting funding to independent schools continue to haunt Labor?
Senator Sterle: Look it doesn’t. Quite frankly it was a ridiculous statement to make and it was a long time ago, it was 2004. After the Gonski Review it was identified that we have some serious funding problem in our schools, both public and private, and I fully support a review into school funding.
Curtis: Scott, your side of politics has been raising concerns that independent schools would see their funding cut, but until we know exactly what the federal government is proposing, until we know exactly how much of the Gonski model it is taking up and how it will fund them, you can’t say it is a real concern can you?
Senator Scott Ryan: Well it is a very real concern Lyndal. All we know about Gonski at the moment has in its detail the prospect of cuts, particularly to Catholic primary schools. We saw on the weekend a survey, and the only information that we’ve seen about the impact of this on school fees and school budgets.
Curtis: That doesn’t mean it is where it will end up.
Senator Ryan: Labor refuses to release the modelling Gonski was based upon. The only modelling we’ve seen is budget cuts to schools and increased fees for parents.
Curtis: But the work the Government has been doing with the state governments to work on exactly how the model will work under Gonski, that work presumably hasn’t finished if the Government is still putting its plan together. So do you actually have to wait until you see what the Government’s willing to go ahead with?
Senator Ryan: Why doesn’t the Labor Party release the modelling that Gonski was based upon? That’s the modelling we know is going to see increased school fees for parents. That’s the modelling they say they’re working on now. Quite frankly, Labor has form on this. The hit list has been mentioned, Labor’s got form in breaking promises, they can’t be trusted when they say no one will be worse off because we know that they won’t answer the most detailed question, which is, will they guarantee the indexation remains in its current form. That’s the only way to maintain funding to all schools.
Curtis: Glen, if you’re going to reform school funding, and the Prime Minister’s making it clear she sees the reforms much more broadly, this is reform aimed at the 2014 school year because that’s when new school funding agreements have to come into effect, do you have to get the detail out soon? You’ve had the report for more than six months I think.
Senator Sterle: Understandable, but Lyndal, there are some 9000 schools around Australia. The Prime Minister and Minister are consulting with the school community. There is a lot of work to be done and it’s quite cute for the Opposition to say ‘release it and let it all out now’, and then start another grand fear campaign. No, we will do it properly. We will consult with those it affects and the Prime Minister has made it very, very clear, very clear Lyndal, that not one cent will be missing from school funding. In fact, school funding under Labor will increase and will always increase.
Curtis: Scott, is it the case that the Coalition has not signed up to any of the reforms that David Gonski outlined in his plan?
Senator Ryan: Well we haven’t seen the modelling that this plan is based upon. What we’re asking is Labor to release the work that’s already been done. We can’t make any decision until we’ve actually seen what the impact of this is going to be. It is completely unreasonable. They don’t have to release the work they’re doing right now necessarily, how about releasing the work they’ve already done because that is what we know. I’ve got family involved in Catholic schools in Victoria, that is what we know is going to lead to increased school fees.
Curtis: Do you believe the school funding system needs to be reformed?
Senator Ryan: The SES funding system, as introduced by the previous Coalition government, has worked. We’ve got more choice in education now than we’ve had for decades. Labor had a new schools policy in the 1980s that basically stopped the creation of new independent schools, the SES funding model has worked to provide that choice for parents.
Curtis: Even though there was quite a long list of problems that the Government found with the SES funding model, including that it was complex, it wasn’t transparent, people weren’t sure where the funding was coming from.
Senator Ryan: Even less so now because they won’t release the modelling that Gonski is based upon.
Curtis: Glen, do you think the Government can successfully sell this reform once it is out? Or will there always be fears that a Labor Government is not as well disposed to independent schools as it is towards the public school system?
Senator Sterle: Lyndal, I am convinced we can do this, but we are going to do it properly. We are consulting. But Lyndal, even as late as today, the Opposition Leader Mr Abbott – Scott you know this – he has come out and said public schools get too much funding. In announcements that the Liberals have made in opposition – and there haven’t been many, I can tell you, apart from massive fear campaigns – is you want to rip out $2.8 billion in school funding. That’s already part of your platform. How the heck can you accuse Labor of cutting education funding? This is our core. Everyone knows that Labor and education, the two go hand-in-hand.
Senator Ryan: And everyone knows that with Labor and private schools and non-government schools, you’ve had a war on them for years and you won’t let up.
Curtis: Scott, if we could go on to the Opposition Leader’s comments today. He was talking about the different amounts of money that students in the public system get compared with students in the private system. He said 66 per cent of students in the public system get 79 per cent of the funding and the 34 per cent in the independent schools get 21 per cent of the funding. He said, ‘there is no question of injustice to public schools, if anything the injustice is the other way around’. Is that not an indication that he believes the way the funding is structured at the moment is an injustice to the independent school sector?
Senator Ryan: No, that was highlighting the sacrifice parents make when they choose non-government schools, be they Catholic or independent schools, for their children. It is also highlighting that every parent who chooses a non-government school – Catholic or independent – is actually saving the taxpayer money. That was highlighting the sacrifice, that is what he was doing.
Curtis: If that is the case, given parents do have a choice to send their kids to independent or Catholic schools with the knowledge they will have to make a contribution, they will have to pay school fees, why should there be any equivalence in the funding the government should give?
Senator Ryan: Well even under Gonski, one of the concerns says there should only be 90 per cent of a particular number going to people at non-government schools. All that particular statement is doing Lyndal is highlighting that every time parents choose a non-government school, for whatever reason, they are actually making a sacrifice, they are putting in their own hard-earned income, and they are saving the taxpayer money. That is something we should applaud, not something we should attack.
Curtis: Why did the Opposition Leader then use words like injustice?
Senator Ryan: He was making an observation Lyndal.
Curtis: Glen, I’ll ask you the flipside of that question, did the Prime Minister draw too long a bow, to go from that statement he made to the statement saying the Opposition Leader was pledging to cut funding to public schools.
Senator Sterle: What we have seen in the very few policy statements the Liberals have put out under Mr Abbott, they’ve made it quite clear they’re going to cut $2.8 billion. I didn’t make this up Lyndal.
Senator Ryan: You are making it up.
Senator Sterle: This is what they’ve come out and said. Quite clearly, they’ll cut. And that statement from Mr Abbott, quite clearly that should send a shiver down parents’ spines. Let’s not forget one very important thing. There are a host of – and parents will predominantly do the best for their children, there is no argument about that – but there is a swathe of Australian people out there, unfortunately, who can’t afford the extra money to send their kids to private schools. So should they be disadvantaged? I support the Prime Minister’s push, and let’s get this very clear, the Gonski report is not a government report.
Senator Ryan: To extrapolate anything from that statement is a sign of a government in desperate straits – to talk about something other than its own record.
Curtis: We might talk about something other than education. Today in the Federation Chamber, the Labor MP Steve Gibbons continued his criticism of the media, suggesting journalists be fined or suspended it their stories are wrong.
<clip of Steve Gibbons MP speaking in the Federation Chamber>
Curtis: Glen, I know Steve Gibbons has stronger views than many in the Labor Party about media reform, but do you think the penalties the media faces for getting it wrong – whether it is to correct the record, or in some cases legal action – are strong enough? Or should there be some other system?
Senator Sterle: Lyndal I think the majority of reporters in this country do a decent job. Of course, if you’re talking about some of the shock jocks maybe they should be taken out and flogged – now I’ll take that back because they’ll have a ball with me tomorrow. But it is incumbent on the media to report the truth and sadly over the years, there have been some shocking reports that are far from the truth, but I don’t put all journalists and all reporters in that same basket as I do for all of the shock jocks.
Curtis: Scott, do you sometimes think in some of your quieter moments that the media should face bigger penalties than the currently do when they get things wrong?
Senator Ryan: Lyndal, every single Australian should get worried when any politician proposes a group of politicians, or people appointed by politicians, deciding on what gets printed or penalties for our journalists. The best regulator of a free media are the citizens who have more choice in listening, reading or watching than they have at any point in history. And any idea that we would start licensing journalists or having penalties or on-the-spot fines, or mandatory corrections, that should worry everyone. Politicians and bureaucrats should not be deciding what we read or listen to.
Curtis: Do media organisations respond quickly enough when they do get things wrong to correct the record in some way or another?
Senator Ryan: We’re politicians, we don’t necessarily always like the things written about us, but I will tell you what, you don’t want us being the judge of what appears in print.
Curtis: Glen, would you like to see media organisations be a bit more responsible?
Senator Sterle: I’d just like to see the media be a bit more responsible themselves and a bit more reporting, report what is the truth. When you start getting these so-called media experts or reporters that are blatantly left or right, I really have a problem with them. I’d rather see them put down on the table as it is, report and just give everyone out there in Australia a chance to make up their mind. Some of the journos in Australia, some, fortunately very few, are way too far either side and they’re not reporting as reporters, they’re commentators.
Curtis: And that’s all we have time for.