Topics: same sex marriage, ACT election, reforms to Liberal Party preselection rules, preselection of Kimberley Kitching
E&OE ….
JIM MIDDLETON:
Now to Special Minister of State, Scott Ryan, welcome to the program, thanks for being there in Canberra.
SENATOR SCOTT RYAN:
Good afternoon Jim.
MIDDLETON:
I’d like to talk about the plebiscite and the prospects now that Labor has made it clear it is going to oppose it. But before I do, I’d like to take you to some remarks of Tanya Plibersek made on Sky News on Weekend Agenda this morning. She acknowledged, after taking quite a few questions, from Paul Kelly that yes, Labor would accept moral and political responsibility, and the consequences, if same-sex marriage is now off the agenda for the rest of this term. But also, she denied that, effectively, Labor was making this a leadership issue for Turnbull and it was not Labor’s responsibility what happened internally in the Coalition as a consequence.
[VIDEO CLIP]Senator Ryan, to do what his head and his heart want. Is it your impression? Do you believe that Labor is really trying to make this a leadership issue for Malcolm Turnbull, given that there is discontent within the Coalition about the whole issue of same sex marriage?
SENATOR RYAN:
Jim, the left of the Labor Party, and Tania Plibersek, should allow Bill Shorten to do what he was inclined to do only a few short years ago. He said that he had no problem with the plebiscite at all. He said that. We took this policy to an election after a long party room debate. This is the mechanism to resolve this issue and to do so through a way that will generate enormous public consent for whatever the result, by virtue of giving every Australian a vote in a fair plebiscite process. Labor’s just trying to divert from the fact that they’re not letting Bill Shorten do what he said he wanted to do only a few short years ago and have a plebiscite and to divert attention from the fact that they are preventing the resolution of this issue and preventing the Australian people from having a say.
MIDDLETON:
Now you are the Minister responsible for the mechanics of this plebiscite. Clearly there is a significant challenge for you in the Senate. What discussions have you been having with the crossbenchers, notably Nick Xenophon and his team, and also Derryn Hinch, both of whom, all of whom, who have suggested they will not vote for the plebiscite?
SENATOR RYAN:
I will have to disappoint you, and potentially your viewers there, I’m not going to outline the conversations I’ve been having with Senate colleagues or House of Representative colleagues on camera.
This legislation will proceed through the House of Representatives. The Senate doesn’t sit this week, we have Senate Estimates hearings, but in the week beginning November 7, the Senate will resume and I’d expect this to be debated in the Senate that week. I remain an optimist. I believe our case for the plebiscite is very strong, after all, I think this is an important point to again reiterate, this is something that was the product of substantial public debate. It was something that was covered at length during the election campaign. We won the election and we are trying to reflect that election commitment in the legislation we introduce to Parliament.
MIDDLETON:
Now, George Christensen, among others, say any change as far as the policy you took to the election on the plebiscite would be a breach of the Coalition agreement, is it actually a test of Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership? Would there be significant defections were he to change his mind and agree that Parliament should decide the issue?
SENATOR RYAN:
Jim, to be fair, let us progress this legislation through the Parliament. It hasn’t been to a vote in the House of Representatives yet and it hasn’t even come to the Senate. My colleague James McGrath said that was George being George. The Coalition agreement’s always a matter between the leaders of the Parliamentary parties, in this case Barnaby Joyce as Deputy Prime Minister and Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. I don’t think that issue is relevant at all but we are going to prosecute this case. Tania Plibersek says she wants a free vote then she can explain why the Labor Party says there can’t be a free vote after the next election, which was covered in today’s press as well. They’re complete hypocrites on this matter.
MIDDLETON:
Let’s move on to another issue, you are back in, what some people unkindly call the People’s Republic of Canberra, where Labor is now heading for close to two straight decades in power. That’s not entirely unexpected given the composition of the electorate in Canberra, but worryingly, I would have thought for you, the vote for the Liberal Party went backwards despite the highly contentious issue of a light rail and also some expensive, at least in the short term, changes to land tax. You’ve also seen in recent months, the conservatives losing in the Northern Territory, you’ve got the Liberals under pressure in Western Australia and even the gloss has worn off the Liberal Government in New South Wales, you are struggling nationally, are you not, to capture the imagination, to regain the confidence of voters?
SENATOR RYAN:
To be fair, with that wrap around the country, it is also fair to say you have Labor Premiers in South Australia and Victoria who are also under unique pressure – one of them because he can’t keep the lights on and the other one for a range of issues, from the Country Fire Authority assault to crime in Victoria. Look, I think you covered it there in your introduction, the ACT is a difficult place for the Liberal Party to win historically since it had self-government. The party there ran a very strong campaign, but you make that obvious point, it is an electorate where it is difficult for us to win.
MIDDLETON:
A fifth term in office and your party going backwards that has got to be something of a worry, even in an electorate like Canberra’s?
SENATOR RYAN:
The ACT is effectively a city-state, it is a state with a unique level of public sector involvement, I think, which is obvious to anyone here and outside right around the country. It also has an electoral system which is relatively unique – the only parallel for it is in Tasmania, but that’s a much more dispersed state. Look I didn’t follow the ACT election in great detail. I know the team there put in a very strong effort and I think the party will obviously look at what happened after all the votes are tallied.
MIDDLETON:
I want to move on to another issue, one close to your heart, democratisation of party structures.
A decade ago, in Victoria, you led moves, effectively, for greater rank-and-file control of preselections.
In New South Wales, Tony Abbott’s leading the way. It has the support of Premier Baird and also of Malcolm Turnbull to do exactly the same thing, nevertheless there are worries, according to Liberal sources I’ve spoken to that, despite the common sense of these arrangements, at the AGM next week, the power brokers, the branch stackers and the lobbyists have sufficient control over the delegates that it might not get, despite the fact there is so much support from party leaders.
SENATOR RYAN:
Jim, I’m going to start by saying I’m not as familiar with the intricacies of New South Wales organisational matters.
The Liberal Party is a federated party. You’re right to refer to the changes we instituted in Victorian in 2007 and 2008, I was part of a team led by David Kemp that did that. I am very proud of those reforms. I think those reforms that involved plebiscites, but also protections against issues that have been problematic in the Labor Party, such as branch stacking, giving members much greater involvement in policy deliberations, measures to limit the power of so-called power brokers. I’m very proud of those reforms and I think my colleagues preselected and elected in Victoria since, there are many, Josh Frydenberg, Kelly O’Dwyer, Chris Crewther, Julia Banks, Tim Wilson, Alan Tudge, Dan Tehan, just to name some of them, I think the Victorian achievements speak for themselves.
But with respect to New South Wales, what I’ll say is, historically, Members of Parliament of the Liberal Party, have always deferred to the non-parliamentary members to determine the rules. In exchange for that, we get freedom over policy. We are not bound in the way the Labor Party is to follow the orders of those outside Parliament, the 36 faceless men, as Robert Menzies famously described them, although now they tend to have much more of a public profile. I think that the record for Victoria, in enfranchising members, growing membership and giving members a say in policy and preselections, I think our record speaks for itself. What New South Wales does is a matter for New South Wales.
MIDDLETON:
Speaking in Sydney yesterday, Tony Abbott suggested that without the changes of the kind that you instituted in Victoria and that he is advocating now, the New South Wales branch risks corruption. Is it that serious?
SENATOR RYAN:
As I said, I don’t want to pass comment on what’s happening in New South Wales not being a member there. What I will say though, is over the three leaders I’ve had in the time I’ve been in Parliament – Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott – they all supported the work that was undertaken in Victoria. It was led by David Kemp, it was comprehensive, it took more than a year. The changes we instituted underpinned our victory in the 2010 state election. Of course, we narrowly lost in 2014, but most people will attribute that to a number of in the parliamentary Liberal Party at the time.
I think giving more members a say over a whole range of activities of the Liberal Party is empowering and enfranchising individual people who put their hand up and join is always a good thing. In 2007 and 2008, some of the work we referred to in Victoria was the work Malcolm Turnbull did before he even came into Parliament. John Howard supported the changes we made in Victoria and I think there has always been support for the leadership for things that enfranchise members across the range of activities.
MIDDLETON:
Still in the state of Victoria but on the other side, of the fence, Bill Shorten’s been defending the nomination of Kimberley Kitching to replace, to take over the Senate spot, as another woman on Labor’s team. Also, we’ve seen suggestions from the Liberal Party this is simply about shoring up Bill Shorten’s support. Well after his performance in the last election, he is not going to need any additional numbers to support his position in caucus is he?
SENATOR RYAN:
That’s a matter for the Labor Party. When you spend a lot of time around this place Jim, you hear lots of whispers. I think the issue about the selection of that candidate seems to have provoked a lot more negative comment from within the Labor Party and there seem to be a lot of voices within Labor who have expressed concerns about that. But that particular person was referred to in the report of the Heydon Royal Commission and that does bring us back to a key agenda for the Government, which we will be seeking to enact this coming week as we debate laws to ensure unions are actually held to the same standards of accountability with their members’ money as we ask corporates to be with shareholders.
MIDDLETON:
Scott Ryan, I do appreciate your time.
(ENDS)