Sky News with Helen Dalley
Topics: ministerial reshuffle, vocational education.
E&OE…
Helen Dalley
Malcolm’s ministerial reshuffle included promotion for Scott Ryan, a Victorian MP who supported Malcolm Turnbull against Tony Abbott. He has been made Minister for Vocational Educational Education and Skills. Now, you may not have noticed that there is somewhat of a crisis in the vocational training sector following the Government’s crackdown on dodgy private sector companies offering to deliver these services – which is a good thing, the crackdown that is – in the past six months a number of the training companies have gone bust or have been put into administration leaving thousands of students in debt and staff in limbo. Scott Ryan joins me now from our Canberra studio, Scott Ryan thanks very much for joining us.
Scott Ryan
Good evening, Helen.
Dalley
And congratulations on your promotion from Assistant Cabinet Secretary to the new portfolio of vocational education and skills.
Ryan
Thank you.
Dalley
You are set to improve on what has been happening in vocational education, there have been quite a few scandals in this sector. What do you intend to do with the portfolio from here?
Ryan
I think it is important that we put those in perspective, they are significant and the impact upon those students and those staff is a priority for me. It is one of the first things I asked to be dealt with today and over the course of this week in my incoming ministerial briefings. For example, VET FEE-HELP at the moment refers to about 200,000 Australians. There are four million Australians that are involved in vocational education of some form, a lot of it happens on the job, a great deal of it is not publically subsidised but what we have had in the VET FEE-HELP space has been an acute problem in one part of the vocational education and training sector.
Dalley
But thousands of students have now been left in limbo, really haven’t they? I mean, it is a good thing that the Government did put this crackdown in place to try and weed out the dodgy companies but staff are in limbo. They have been left with debts due to the collapse of one in particular, the country’s largest vocational education provider is Aspire, what can you do to help those students now? They are in limbo aren’t they?
Ryan
After six or eight hours today, and officially taking the job later this week, I don’t want to actually get into specific details right now. There are some court cases under way which I do want to be careful of with respect to some of the providers. But you are right to say that there has been a problem in the sector that has left some students and staff in limbo. What we have done over the course of the last few months (it started last year) was to introduce a funding cap so that we could maintain the system where it was and go through compliance mechanisms and make sure we increased the quality. Now, that is really the first phase. What my job is now is to do two things, to complete the re-working of the VET FEE-HELP scheme – the loan scheme that allows people to undertake vocational training at no upfront cost – that needs to be reworked to make sure the problem doesn’t happen again. And what I will be briefed on later this week is: what is the situation with respect to those students who have suffered? I will be honest Helen, it is not something I have had a chance to get into today. Today I have been introduced to all of the compliance mechanisms and the like.
Dalley
Okay, of course. And on that subject I appreciate that you haven’t even really taken the job up yet. Do we know whether those students, they have been left with the HECS style debt, do we know whether they got their certificates, whether they got their diploma, whether they are actually really in limbo?
Ryan
I can’t speak in respect to any individual firm; I know there has been a variation of responses. Some, I understand – and this a very high level – have had some refund of fees, I think it is fair to describe or there might be another way to formally describe that, but there are others still very much in limbo, and that is what I will be looking into later this week before Parliament resumes next Monday.
Dalley
So there has been quite a bit of rorting in this VET FEE-HELP – and for our audience let’s say that it is a bit like the HECS scheme for universities where the government subsidises places and then the student has to repay the debt at some later date when they start earning their money – how did it get to this? That these companies were able to rort the system, they were offering students inducements without any thought apparently to whether they had the (inaudible) to complete these courses.
Ryan
It was one of the earlier questions I asked this morning and indeed over the weekend that I asked to be filled in on this morning. A number of controls on the system were removed in 2012 at the Federal level, I understand, and slightly earlier at the state level in Victoria that led to a large spike and a large entry in the number of providers and a large spike in spending. Why exactly the compliance regime didn’t work there, that is what I am getting into now; I think there are some very real lessons to learn because we cannot afford to have it happen again.
Dalley
Because of course Aspire wasn’t the only one. In the last six months Melbourne based training provider MWT Institute was placed under external management in September. In November the publically listed provider Vocation also had huge problems, external managers were provided and they already had to hand back – as we understand- $20 million in Government funding.
Ryan
Helen I actually cannot comment on any individual firm, I haven’t got to that level of detail in my first day and as I said earlier, there are some court cases underway I don’t know with what firms, I am getting briefed on that tomorrow. So, I don’t want to make any comment about a specific firm I think that would be unfair. But, there are some lessons to learn and I think that is one of my priorities.
Dalley
Do you feel that – I mean the Government has outsourced this whole vocational education sector – do you think that you need to think about whether some of it, or all of it, should be brought back under the Government’s wing?
Ryan
The Commonwealth Government didn’t do a lot of direct vocational education; a lot of this represents an expansion of opportunity. I think we have got to remember that the numbers of people, while there are thousands, that there are still tens of thousands or more that have been offered vocational education chances that they probably couldn’t have afforded. So, there has been a productive expansion of the system. I also think that we cannot put rose-coloured glasses on about what it was like in the past where there was set number of courses at set TAFEs or set other colleges for particular vocational courses, I don’t think that necessarily worked better. There was a lot of unmet and unrevealed demand, so a lot of people missed out. There are clearly lessons to learn about regulation and compliance and about making sure students get what they pay for and public money and public subsidy is used properly, and that is exactly what I am going to do.
Dalley
Well you’re starting that job on Thursday when you get sworn in. Let’s talk about that ministerial reshuffle. It looks like most of Malcolm Turnbull’s supporters in the September coup have actually been rewarded with some sort of promotion after his weekend reshuffle.
Ryan
Look I don’t that’s the best prism through which to view it…
Dalley
But it’s true isn’t it?
Ryan
Well look my two Victorian colleagues that I have known, in Allan Tudge’s case for 25 years and in Dan Tehan’s case for over a decade, both of them made clear they supported the previous Prime Minister in the ballot, but they are both very talented individuals that have a lot to offer. The Prime Minister made…
Dalley
I’m not denying that they’re talented. It is in fact the case that they were also supporters of Mr Turnbull, weren’t they?
Ryan
No, they actually made public their support otherwise. So I think that that is a…
Dalley
Oh Dan Tehan yes of course.
Ryan
That is a sign that what the Prime Minister’s done is promote people entirely on talent and what they can offer the Government and through that, offer the people of Australia.
Dalley
But in fact my question was: most of the people that supported the Prime Minister and the very tight group, they have all been promoted. Not to say that others haven’t as well.
Ryan
As I have said Helen, I don’t think that’s the appropriate prism to look through it. I think what the Prime Minister did on the weekend and also what he did last September; there were other very prominent supporters of Mr Abbott, Josh Frydenberg and some other colleagues that also had promotions to go into cabinet. I think what Malcolm Turnbull’s done is say ‘what are the best people for the best jobs?’ and he’s going to reward people with recognised performance.
Dalley
Victorian MPs, and you’re one of them, are now quite numerous in the Ministry. Malcolm Turnbull has talked about the newer, younger blood, the talent that is coming up through Victoria. I guess you’d agree with him on that.
Ryan
I tend to be a humble person, Helen. It wouldn’t be appropriate to agree, but then again I’m probably not going to disagree as well.
Dalley
Oh go on, you’re a politician.
Ryan
We’re a bit different in the Senate.
Dalley
Yeah, exactly. Alright now while the reshuffle might get a big tick, it has really been an unseemly reason behind it, as Paul Kelly pointed out on this network on the weekend. Mr Turnbull effectively had to sack Stuart Robert and that was after Jamie Briggs having to be forced out and Mal Brough having to stand aside. So in five months since Malcolm Turnbull’s been the Prime Minister, he’s lost six ministers. Is that not a good look for a new government?
Ryan
Look I, the people of Australia, the public, take their leave from the Prime Minister and what they’ve seen is a Prime Minister who when he’s had to make difficult decisions, he has made them, and I think he is actually recognised for that. I don’t want to particularly comment on difficulties some of my colleagues and friends may have had. I think a couple of people had to make difficult decisions but correct ones. But what the Prime Minister’s made clear is that high performance and high standards for all of us. I think the public recognise that he is actually living by those himself.
Dalley
So Bill Shorten is obviously trying to make political hay out of this issue and calling the new line up ‘P platers.’ He does have a bit of a point doesn’t he? You are, I mean Andrew Robb and obviously Warren Truss are experienced hands – they’re now moving on – a lot of you are more inexperienced.
Ryan
Just in my personal case Helen, I’ve been in Parliament over seven and a half years and I’ve served as Parliamentary Secretary in Education previously when the Abbott Government was first elected. Dan Tehan, my Victorian colleague, has done an extraordinary job and that is recognised right around the parliament of all sides, chairing one of the most important committees of the Parliament, the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and Security, and achieving some very important consensus on some very important legislation there. So with all due respect, I think Bill’s just trying to get a headline in the gallery here because what we’re seeing is the Prime Minister promote people who have got experience but also have got the proven track record to know that they’ll deliver on what he asks of them.
Dalley
Alright Scott Ryan, thank you so much for joining us and enjoy Thursday.
Ryan
Thank you very much.
(ENDS)