E&OE…

LAURA JAYES
Joining us now from Melbourne is the Assistant Cabinet Secretary, Scott Ryan. Scott Ryan, thanks so much for your time.

SCOTT RYAN
Good morning, Laura.

JAYES
Before I get to Paris, we saw that terror attack in Mali overnight. This reminds us that terror is not just a problem for western nations.

RYAN
The tragedy of what happened in Paris last week is sadly being replicated again in Mali, and in other examples particularly in Africa with Boko Haram that we might not have read about over the last few months as well. I can say that the Department of Foreign Affairs has been busy overnight and the High Commission in Ghana, which is accredited to Mali, has been making urgent enquiries to ascertain whether any Australians were involved in the tragic events in Mali. As far as we can ascertain at the moment, there are no Australians involved.

JAYES
Can I ask you about the repercussions of Paris now, do you think what happened in Paris is changing the way we are viewing this intake of refugees? Should Australia be taking mainly Christians, Yazidis and Jews?

RYAN
Firstly, it is important to recall that Australia has the most rigorous refugee assessment program in the world. We have an incredibly successful one, and that has always fallen on the basis that we can choose who comes here. We are expert at it, our Department of Immigration have a long history at it, and we are very successful at it. I think the Australian way is to not judge people by labels, whether that be the colour of their skin or their particular faith; we judge people as individuals. Now, what has been made clear by the Government is that this refugee intake will be prioritising those who really have no prospect of ever returning to their homeland. There has tragically been in the Middle East, and in this part of the world over the past fifty years, a habit of, for lack of a better way of putting it, a tragic way of ethnic cleansing. We have seen the Jewish communities all through northern Africa and the Middle East pushed out after the formation of Israel, and tragically we have seen the persecution of minorities such as the Yazidis and historic Christian communities; there are also Islamic minorities that have been persecuted. So, we are going to focus on those who really have no prospect of returning home, for whom they do need a new life and they need a new place to make a new life.

JAYES
It would seem most of those would be Christians, Jews, and Yazidis, so it could very well be that half the intake, if not more of the 12 000, will be from those three groups. Would you agree?

RYAN
I don’t think we necessarily categorise it that way. Firstly, there is no way Australia can solve this problem, it is an important contribution to make a meaningful difference to the lives of 12 000 people who have been affected by this awful civil war, this barbaric war, but we can’t solve the problem because of the sheer number of people involved. That is where the solution to the war is going to be of most importance to those people long term. What we are going to do is make a big difference to those 12 000 people, affect and target those who have no prospect of returning home; they will be from all communities in the region. I don’t think that it is particularly helpful to come up with proportions or targets that is not the important point. The important point is that they have been assessed, they have the capacity to become part of the Australian community and we will support them to become so.

JAYES
 Just changing tack now, and the Port of Darwin sale, it is a pretty big deal when the US President brings up directly with the Prime Minister, in a bilateral meeting, about something like this. At the very least was this a diplomatic misstep?

RYAN
I don’t think we should get too hung up on this particular conversation between the Prime Minister and the US President. We want our bilateral discussions to actually be frank. We want these bilateral discussions with some of our closest friends, such as the United States with whom we have this deep and historic relationship…

(Interrupted)

JAYES
I think the point was being made, Scott Ryan, that this frank discussion perhaps should have happened months earlier though?

RYAN
The Secretary of the Department of Defence, who is a former Ambassador to Washington, has made clear publically that these issues were examined and he has made clear that there were discussions. As to whether or not they reach the particular levels in the United States that they would have desired, then that is something that can be reflected upon. And that is what the bilateral discussion was about.

JAYES
Peter Jennings from ASPI has argued in recent days that FIRB really isn’t the appropriate body for a sale like this to be examined, and it didn’t meet the required threshold in this case. So, what is the Government doing to ensure this doesn’t happen in the future? Are you open to a Senate enquiry? What is the Government thinking on this?

RYAN
The decision as to a Senate enquiry, I understand, will be made next week. Even if we are confident in the processes we undertook, as we are, that doesn’t mean we can’t actually look at it again and say: can this be improved in the future? Now these are longstanding rules around the Foreign Investment Review Board, so it is not something that has just occurred in the last couple of months, these have been in place for years including under multiple governments. But we have said we will review them, particularly when it comes to the sale of state or territory owned assets, which FIRB currently has a very limited role of looking over. So, I think we can say that we will look at it, and we will look at the FIRB processes to determine whether they are appropriate or whether there should be another measure to consider such asset sales, particularly when they are done by another level of government.

JAYES
And there are some other sales in the pipeline at the moment: the New South Wales electricity sale has been looked at to be sold to a Chinese company at the moment. Should that be put on hold while this is sorted out?

RYAN
I think the New South Wales electricity privatisation has been something that has been discussed and has been particularly high profile for many, many years; it has been the subject of many elections. So, I think there aren’t many people who don’t know about that. We also have got to be careful here that the Commonwealth, while we do have the national interest at stake, we can’t necessarily direct what state governments do. So I think there does need to be a level of respect around that. There is always substantial cooperation and discussion around these issues and I think where they are discussed publically so often and for such a sustained period, that brings a degree of transparency that we would desire.

JAYES
And Scott Morrison also blocked the sale of the Kidman cattle property this week, a property that takes up 2 per cent of Australia’s land mass. This is a decision that Andrew Robb has branded as political. Was it?

RYAN
Andrew Robb has also made clear that he thinks his comments were taken out of context and  later in the story there is a further comment from Andrew Robb which he said is the full context of the observation he made which is: he has faith in the Treasurer having made the decision in the national interest. He was making observations on how difficult it is to get Australian investment into the agricultural sector. Now, we know how important that is to the growth of Australia and the opportunities there, particularly under the free trade agreements negotiated by Andrew Robb, so that story has been blown a bit out of proportion. Andrew had made it very clear that he has complete faith in Scott having made the decision in the national interest, he was observing on the sensitivities of foreign investment in agriculture, which he knows requires a degree of political consensus across the community.

JAYES
And can I just finally ask you about Tony Abbott, he has been offering his advice on national security this week. Is that advice welcome?

RYAN
One of the things I think Australians take confidence from is a Government that is free and confident in debating its ideas internally. Now, what happened in Paris last weekend has caused us all to remember the tragedy and the threat we have seen in the past such as September 11 and Bali, as well as the threat we know that happens to western and freedom loving nations. So having part of these discussions in public I think  gives Australians a great degree of confidence that all members of the Government, and all community leaders, are thinking about these issues and that we are freely debating them to come up with the best response.

JAYES
It would seem to me that Tony Abbott is fashioning himself as an important voice going forward in the centre-right both domestically and internationally, perhaps a sign that he might stay on in Parliament. Is that helpful?

RYAN
Well that is a decision for the former Prime Minister to make, and I am sure that he said he would be thinking about that over the coming months. There is a record of achievement particularly around national security and domestic security that I think the former Prime Minister can be very proud of. But sometimes Laura, maybe it is just on weekends that the media always jump to conclusions that I think the rest of the community doesn’t. I think this is a sign that the Government is comfortable debating these ideas publically and giving the community confidence that we are thinking deeply about them.

JAYES
Assistant Cabinet Secretary, Scott Ryan, thanks for your time.

RYAN
Thanks, Laura.

(ENDS)