E&OE…

KIERAN GILBERT
This is AM Agenda, with me now the Assistant Cabinet Secretary Senator Scott Ryan and Labor frontbencher Ed Husic with the expanded responsibilities as of yesterday, congratulations on that.

In terms of Labor’s approach to the China Free Trade Agreement, it looks like despite some concerns within the Party that you’re going soft on the deal that it is going to go through with some safeguards, albeit diluted?

ED HUSIC
I guess we have said all along that we are supportive, we have had a historic relationship with China that we are proud to have part ownership of in the sense of Gough Whitlam opening up the links back in the 70s, we are certainly supportive and have a demonstrated track record on trade liberalisation but we think that trade should work as broadly – in terms of spreading the benefit – as possible. We think that CHAFTA will benefit exporters, it will benefit consumers, but it also should importantly benefit Australian employees and workers.

GILBERT
Have you got the balance right?

HUSIC
We think we have, and what we have put forward is a set of suggestions – amendments – that we think will be complementary to CHAFTA and ensure that people can have confidence that they will get a slice of the action, the economic activity that is generated through an employment pathway. That is what we want to see happen.

GILBERT
Senator Ryan, is the Government now going to acquiesce here? It looks like Labor has come a fair way in your direction, there is no specific mention to China, these are safeguards relevant to all free trade deals.

SCOTT RYAN
The important point here is to remember that the trade deal that Andrew Robb has negotiated doesn’t make any changes to the Migration Act, it only changes the Custom Act and changes tariffs, that is an important point. However, the Government has also made clear that this is a very important agreement, I appreciate that Ed talked about the past with China, this is about the future, this is about decades of economic activity that will likely be…

(Interrupted)

GILBERT
And you want it done, so surely you will come to the table and sign off on this?

RYAN
We have got some key principles that Andrew Robb outlined yesterday which is non-discrimination against China and not re-opening the agreement, but we’ve also made clear that we will sit down with the Opposition and listen to their proposals in good faith.

GILBERT
It sounds like the deal is done for all intents and purposes now.

RYAN
I would like to think that the Labor Party will come to the table on this most important agreement, the scare campaign run by the CFMEU actually bears no relationship to reality. Every Australian will benefit from this. Ed talked about businesses and consumers, but every worker is also a consumer, trade deals that lower prices for consumer actually provide a big win for Australia but we will listen to Labor…(inaudible) …in good faith.

GILBERT
It’s a balancing act though, isn’t it? If you look at this relationship – I just spoke to the Foreign Minister about the patrols in the South China Sea – so on the one hand we are having talks with the US in Boston about them protecting freedom of navigation and on the other hand we are talking about our biggest trading partner and ever closer ties. There is a real distinct difference here between the economic relationship and strategic security behaviour that is going on here.

HUSIC
Australia is in a good position to straddle both of those concerns, issues and priorities. I think from our point of view, trade is good in building relationships and it is an important way in which countries deal with each other and we do need to find ways to improve that. I have certainly been on the record a number of times in terms of trade liberalisation and it not only being good from an economic perspective but also good from a relationship perspective. But clearly trade, and in terms of the South China Sea issue, we can’t have a situation where people are concerned about their ability to access trade routes, to have that impended is a serious concern. We hope that all the parties, all of the countries that are worried about what is happening there can find a smart, sensible way to deescalate the tensions. We have a good relationship, a historic relationship with the United States, we obviously also discussed what we have got with China and being able to ensure that we have all parties brought together in a productive way is something that I think ticks all of the boxes.

GILBERT
Australia actually, I know that we are not the world’s biggest power, but as a middle power we do have a role to play in terms of being trusted by the Chinese by a big extent, but still not being the United States.

RYAN
The world is a complex place, and what you mention there Kieran is the complexities that any middle power faces, but as Ed mentioned there is also a huge opportunity here for Australia because this very much is the centre for global economic growth, it is where there is still substantially growing populations as opposed to other parts of the world and importantly the Trans-Pacific Partnership – negotiations were concluded last week – is about doing what one of the oldest debates in free trade is about, which is building links across countries between people with mutual and shared interests and that goes a long way to reduce tensions…(inaudible).

GILBERT
They are making enormous steps in regard to clean energy, we will talk about that another day because I do want to touch on this issue of the royal commission. Again, the senior construction executive, former executive at Thiess John Holland saying that Bill Shorten had negotiated to have Union workers on site, $300’000 all up over a three-year contract and at the same time he was negotiating workers’ rights which cut down those particular rights on the workplace. Does this reflect badly on his time as a Union leader?

HUSIC
We have said for quite some time that the royal commission is an $80 million political exercise set up by the Coalition to extract political advantage. It is not a serious attempt to improve governance within the sector. If you want to compare records, look at Bill Shorten’s record particularly in terms of East-West Link and the agreements that were negotiated. They were either on-time, under budget, best safety record, best wages in civil construction in terms of those pay outcomes. Compare it to Malcolm Turnbull who was happy to support Work Choices and is now arguing about basically ripping off penalty rates and cutting people’s income and take-home pay. Let’s compare the record, let’s get that on the table. I think Bill is more than happy…

(Interrupted)

GILBERT
He is not talking about cutting the pay; he is saying that they are going to be net better off. But, anyway…

(Interrupted)

HUSIC
How does that occur? How does that legitimately occur?

GILBERT
You lift the rest of the wage, the flat wage…

(Interrupted)

HUSIC
Sure… (Interrupted)…you go on.

RYAN
That was not a very good attempt at not answering a question, Ed, I have got to say. What we have seen from the royal commission yesterday were diary notes from an official who says that there were hundreds of thousands of dollars exchanged between the Union and a company which is a clear conflict of interest. Ed and I have to fill out forms if we go to the tennis to declare that we got a tennis ticket from Tennis Australia…(Interrupted)

HUSIC
Why would anyone want to go to the tennis for?

RYAN
…none of this is declared. This is the whole point, the Labor Party doesn’t want to talk about the washing of the hundreds of thousands of dollars between Union officials and businesses.

GILBERT
How is it a conflict though, can you explain that? He says that you can do both at the same time.

RYAN
But it is not declared. The whole point we have, in every business and every public institution is that you have to declare where something happens so that people can judge.

GILBERT
Did he do anything wrong though, fundamentally was there anything wrong…(Interrupted)

RYAN
I am not going to leap to conclusions because I believe it is also fair to give Mr Shorten the opportunity to respond to these, as I understand it he will reappear, but in every other business organisation you have to declare if these arrangements take place. The Union members didn’t know that this was taking place and we have the business saying: we were paying for things that weren’t done.

GILBERT
You look at the business though, I know Labor cops flack for being too close to the Unions, you have a Union leader here who did a deal that Tony Shepherd, former industry boss, saying that this was a great deal  for workers and for industry, it came in under budget and on schedule.

RYAN
At the same time it is a deal that no business person could get away with with a related entity that they were involved in when they were claiming to represent someone else. This is the whole point, it is the secrecy…

(Interrupted)

GILBERT
Just quickly, Ed we are almost out of time.

HUSIC
Bill Shorten answers nine hundred questions, says he is prepared to appear if required, has categorically rejected some of the claims put forward and has got a great record to stand on in terms of what he has been able to deliver for the people he represented as the head of the AWU. I think he has been up front, he has been able demonstrate performance and record and this is, as I said, it is purely a political exercise –  the entire royal commission –it is the wrong way in which a government has used a royal commission in terms of public policy.

GILBERT
Ed Husic and Scott Ryan, thanks very much and as always it is good to see you. Quick break on AM Agenda, back in just a moment.

(ENDS)