Subjects: ABCC legislation; Senate crossbench; accountability of banks in Australia; Herbert
E & OE…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
JIM MIDDLETON:
Joining me now , Special Minister of State, Scott Ryan. Scott, very good to have you here. Thank you very much.
First of all, the new Senate, we got the final numbers during the week. An even bigger crossbench than you had last time round. Now the purpose of the double dissolution obviously was to be in a position where you could get the Australian Building and Construction Commission re-established. Do you see a way in which you can cobble together, get those extra eight votes that you would need in a joint sitting to get that, I think it’s 114 votes when you take the two houses together, that you would need to be able to get that through a joint sitting?
SCOTT RYAN:
Well, constitutionally the Bill has to actually go through the House of Representatives again. It then gets presented to the Senate again. If the Senate rejects it then the possibility of a joint sitting presents itself. So the Senate will have another opportunity to consider it, the new Senate. There are 30 Coalition senators. There are 26 Labor, nine Greens and 11 members of the crossbench. As was the case before the last election, we’ve been elected at multiple elections now with a mandate for this.
MIDDLETON:
You won’t get Labor or the Greens to change their position.
RYAN:
I don’t think we should as easily dismiss the fact that Labor and the Greens by refusing to heed the results of election after election, they get to deny the mandate that we have openly and publicly sought for multiple elections and on multiple occasions been granted.
MIDDLETON:
Nonetheless, the best opportunity you will have will be working your way through the crossbenchers. The Nick Xenophon team: three of them. Pauline Hanson’s One Nation: four of them. You’ve got David Leyonhjelm and Bob Day back again, they supported it in the past. Do you see in those two other groups, though, NXT, and One Nation, an opportunity to get the votes you need?
RYAN:
I see opportunity and my colleagues, particularly the Prime Minister and Senator Cash, the responsible Minister, will have discussions with members of the crossbench in the House and the Senate. We are optimistic that we have an opportunity to see the passage of this very important legislation.
MIDDLETON:
Inevitably, though, if it is a negotiation with the crossbenchers, there will be negotiations, too, if there were to be a joint sitting of the Parliament with the crossbench. In the lower house, Bob Katter has, for example, declared his opposition to the ABCC, but on the other hand there’s Cathy McGowan, there’s also Andrew Wilkie, might be opportunities there?
RYAN:
I think one of the things the Prime Minister made clear and all my colleagues – ministerial and those in the Senate in particular – have committed to, and are undertaking, is to treat every one of the crossbenchers with the respect that anyone elected to the Australian Parliament deserves. One of the big impacts of the change in the Senate voting system was there was no preference whispering. No-one was elected with a secret deal. The only people elected to the Senate under this voting system are people who had Australians mark their number physically in a ballot paper.
MIDDLETON:
What about the cost of doing this, though? That if you do have to negotiate with the crossbenchers, there will be a price. They will want trade-offs and some of them would not necessarily be priorities for the Government or indeed what the Government wants?
RYAN:
The job of the Government is to make Parliament work. Again, I say, Jim, we shouldn’t be giving the Labor Party a free pass here. The fact that we’ve won an election, clearly now, for the second time, with this as a core part of our mandate, the Labor Party are ignoring it. We will seek to work with the Parliament that the people presented with us. That will mean that we will have to, we will compromise. We’re not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
MIDDLETON:
Do you accept, for example, that it may well be the case that a condition of support from someone like Nick Xenophon would be a royal commission into the banking system?
RYAN:
I’m not going to get into specific details of my colleagues’ portfolios here. Negotiations on the ABCC will be a matter for the Prime Minister and Senator Cash. And similarly I won’t undertake any discussions with my Senate colleagues on television, Jim.
MIDDLETON:
Fair enough. The banks are a real problem for governments of all stripes. They were a problem for the Labor government between 2007 and 2013, and yet, once again, despite clear signals, smoke signals at least, from Malcolm Turnbull, from Treasurer Scott Morrison, they simply ignore your advice. This really enrages people and makes it much harder to fend off suggestions that they do deserve an investigation like a royal commission.
RYAN:
I might say, but that’s one of the reasons the Prime Minister and Treasurer announced that they will have to front up to people’s elected representatives, the Economics Committee of the House of Representatives, at least once a year.
MIDDLETON:
That won’t produce cultural change, though, will it?
RYAN:
I think, respectfully, it would. We will have elected MPs from all parts of the House of Representatives have an opportunity to put to the CEOs of the banks the questions they get from their constituents.
Now, most Members of Parliament in my experience are pretty well connected with their communities, whether that be issues around small business lending, whether that be issues people are having with life insurance, some of the issues we saw reported, rather than a three-year royal commission, that actually can’t prosecute anything, that is just going to be a lawyer-fest. We’ve given ASIC the powers and resources, and on top of that the people’s elected representatives will have an opportunity to question them.
MIDDLETON:
The central problem here is that the banks are not respecting the mandate given to them. They’re effectively an oligopoly, the four big banks. They are very much protected and supported by government with guarantees to enable them to function quite effectively and fend off competition from smaller banks, for example. They are not playing fair, are they?
RYAN:
Well, I wouldn’t agree with necessarily every assertion you made there. It’s fair to say there is a lot more public concern about the degree of competition in banking. I think you’re right to highlight that because of the implicit – not always explicit – but the implicit public guarantee for Australia’s banks, always stated explicitly and previously the banks have had to actually pay for it, and it’s not always enshrined in law, but what it does mean is that the people expect their banks to treat them fairly and reasonably and whenever you have a series of public scandals as we’ve seen reported in the media, whether that be on insurance or foreign exchange loans that a couple of my colleagues have pursued, the banks need to rebuild a level of public trust.
MIDDLETON:
They’re not doing it, are they, when, in the very first cut in official interest rates after the election, they failed to pass on the full amount?
RYAN:
They need to explain themselves. I think, look, they are independent of government. That’s the important point. We don’t regulate those. But what we do want and why the Prime Minister and Treasurer announced this unique mechanism, where they will have to front up to members of the House of Representatives and explain themselves in public and on camera, is that they’ve got to explain and convince the public why they’re not passing the cuts on.
MIDDLETON:
Why is naming and shaming any different to naming and shaming by successive treasurers and prime ministers of this country? They’ve simply ignored all requests by Malcolm Turnbull, by Tony Abbott, by Julia Gillard, and Kevin Rudd before them, to do, to do the right thing.
RYAN:
I don’t think they’ve ignored all the requests. When they haven’t followed through, that’s been when it’s quite rightly attracted a lot of public attention. I have worked for a large multinational organisation – I’ve worked for a couple. I can tell you that reputation is very important to them. The idea that, at least once a year, the heads of the organisations, the banks, will have to turn up and answer questions not just from a competing press conference to a Treasurer, though that’s important, but have a public discussion and answer for their actions before a parliamentary committee. I think that’s a very important mechanism to hold them to account regularly in a way that the people’s concerns can be represented through their elected officials.
MIDDLETON:
You said a moment ago that they should explain themselves. Well, to a degree, they have, in saying that they need to retain some of the interest rate cut to protect their balance sheets. They are among the most profitable banks in the world. They have greater security, courtesy of government guarantees, than many other banks around the world. They’re just not playing fair, are they?
RYAN:
As to the relative state of the government guarantees, I’m not entirely sure of the legislation here and comparatively around the world, but they have partly explained themselves. But Jim as I’m turning up to you, the ability for you to follow up and ask more questions, to probe my answers, that is what is going to be happening – happening to bank CEOs by the people that communities elect and put into Parliament who will be representing the concerns they get from people coming into their offices as their constituents. I think that will draw the attention of the CEOs and their banks to understand the impacts on the community.
MIDDLETON:
One question on your portfolio; the seat of Herbert, a 37-vote majority. The Coalition’s been exploring the possibility of taking it to the Court of Disputed Returns. But it does appear that in terms of the soldiers on exercise in South Australia and there’s been suggestions some didn’t get the chance to vote, that the army explicitly, two months before the election, told them of the possibility of this situation, advised them they could seek postal votes. It’s going to be pretty tough, isn’t it, to find grounds for a challenge?
RYAN:
Well, look, I think firstly, I’m not familiar with that particular point you’ve made. I do know there were interactions between the Department of Defence and the Electoral Commission to facilitate people on that exercise voting. I have stayed away from the party matter on this. The writs for the election will be returned by the Commissioner on Monday and after that the candidates and relevant parties will have an opportunity for just under 40 days on this occasion, if they wish to, to file a dispute with the Court of Disputed Returns. That’s a matter really for the Liberal National Party of Queensland, the Federal Liberal Party and the candidates involved.
MIDDLETON:
Senator Scott Ryan, thank you very much indeed.
RYAN:
Thanks Jim.
(ENDS)