Topics: Prime Minister’s announcement to increase Australia’s humanitarian intake
E&OE …
JON FAINE:
Earlier this morning, I was putting forward a proposition, a theory of mine, that Malcolm Turnbull at the refugee summit with Barack Obama and other world leaders overnight, that Australia’s temporary, one-off increase of 12,000 additional refugees that Tony Abbott announced, is to become an annual, a permanent intake, thus, increasing overnight, Australia’s refugee intake by over 50 per cent. It was also matched by the announcement that we will take people from Central America. There are a large number of refugees in Costa Rica, in camps there, who have been forced away from their homes in El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. And my theory, put forward to Marion Le this morning, speculation entirely I cheerfully admit on my part, is that maybe the Australian Government is preparing us for a swap? The Middle Eastern and Afghan refugees on Manus Island and Nauru will be sent to Canada and the United States. In exchange, we will take, maybe even a two-for-one quota, from Central America, coming as it does, at the same time as a poll showing 49 per cent of Australians polled said they agreed with Pauline Hanson and we should stop taking all Muslim migrants.
Well Senator Scott Ryan, Victorian Liberal Senator, is the Special Minister of State in the Turnbull federal Coalition Government. Senator Ryan, good morning to you.
SENATOR SCOTT RYAN:
Good morning Jon and I should commence, like everyone else, in saying happy birthday. I hope I’m as sprightly as you…
FAINE
… when you turn 60?
SENATOR RYAN:
Yes.
FAINE:
You’re a long way away Senator Ryan.
SENATOR RYAN:
It doesn’t seem that long.
FAINE:
Well that’s very kind of you to call me sprightly. I’ve been called many things in my time, sprightly is right up there.
Am I wrong in my speculation or am I on the money?
SENATOR RYAN:
Jon, I honestly thought you crossed the line this morning. You brought the notion of religion into this. You said this was about Catholics and Muslims. The truth is, if we debate the facts here and don’t assign a false motive to people who don’t like some aspects of our border protection policies. The increase to our refugee intake to 18,750 was first announced in December 2014 by then immigration minister Scott Morrison.
FAINE:
As a one-off.
SENATOR RYAN: It was announced but there was no commitment going forward is the correct way to put it. It was announced as part of an arrangement with the Senate crossbenchers at the time to re-legislate for Temporary Protection Visas.
FAINE:
It was a one-off. Now it is to be permanent.
SENATOR RYAN:
And then, when then prime minister Tony Abbott announced the 12,000 Syrian refugees being brought in in September last year he re-stated that. It has been re-stated a number of times since then by Peter Dutton.
FAINE:
And priority was to be given to Yazidids – a persecuted Christian minority in the Middle East. Am I right, or am I wrong?
SENATOR RYAN:
Well Jon, I think you crossed a line by running a motive here. We have maintained …
FAINE:
Am I right or wrong when I crossed that line?
SENATOR RYAN:
We have maintained an absolute rock-solid commitment, an absolute rock-solid commitment, to a non-discriminatory immigration and resettlement program. We have always made clear that the people who come to Australia, or attempt to, unlawfully by boat, will not be settled in this country. There is absolutely no discussion of their particular cultural background.
FAINE:
Senator, am I wrong?
SENATOR RYAN:
There is no basis on the speculation that you are putting forward. You are wrong.
FAINE:
We will not be sending people from Manus and Nauru to other countries in exchange …
SENATOR RYAN:
There is no basis at all for this allegation of a people swap and particularly the element you put to it about this being somehow about religion. What the Prime Minister said, in a very considered speech overnight, is that we will maintain this new level of 18,750 going forward. We made an extra commitment of $130 million to support the services for those who are in displaced countries, on top of a recent $220 million commitment …
FAINE:
Sure, let’s just go through step-by-step. The people on Nauru and Manus are not to be resettled in Australia, correct?
SENATOR RYAN:
We’ve made that absolutely clear.
FAINE:
The courts in PNG have said they are not to stay there, so they have to go.
SENATOR RYAN:
No they haven’t. What they’ve said is, under the terms of the agreement, they are entitled to settle in PNG. That’s the option for the people on Manus who have been found to be refugees.
FAINE:
The Government of PNG has said they don’t really want them to so they’re going to have to be found somewhere else. New Zealand has said, ‘no, we’re not negotiating with Australia’. So it looks very much, if you join the dots of what the Prime Minister has negotiated, and I don’t think it is an unreasonable conclusion to draw.
SENATOR RYAN:
Are you saying it is reasonable to have brought in this notion, which was discussed earlier with the person you interviewed …
FAINE:
Marion Le.
SENATOR RYAN:
I couldn’t remember her name off the top of my head, my apologies Marion. That this is about religion? Jon, that’s deeply offensive.
FAINE:
It’s not about religion. It’s about sorting out a political headache that bedevilled you, and the previous government and the one before that as well, and it looks as if, what in fact, Malcolm Turnbull has negotiated is that we will permanently increase our refugee intake by 50 per cent and bring people over from Costa Rica, which has never been on anybody’s radar as a hotspot for refugees …
SENATOR RYAN: Jon, with respect, I think Central America has been a place of some difficultly and internal conflict for some time.
FAINE:
For the Americas! There have been no boats arriving from Costa Rica in Australia.
SENATOR RYAN:
Jon, we have always gone to parts of the world, particularly where people have been found in long-term displaced camps in horrific circumstances. I’ve met some of these people from places like the Horn of Africa. In fact, one of the rationales for us maintaining our strong border protection policy is that we can go to these camps and take people out and change their lives. Whereas, when we had the open borders policy that Labor instituted with Greens support, the number of people being brought from those camps shrunk. We were not able to change the lives of many of those people in some of the most desperate circumstances in the world.
You did raise the issue of Catholics versus Muslims. Mate, that was deeply offensive to those of us who support a strong resettlement policy and it being utterly non-discriminatory.
FAINE:
You haven’t actually said that I am wrong in my speculation that we will be resettling people from Central America and swapping them for the people on Manus and Nauru.
SENATOR RYAN:
There is not, and there will be, no people swap.
FAINE:
Unequivocally?
SENATOR RYAN:
There will be no people swap. It’s speculation driven by a couple of news outlets this morning and what the Prime Minister made a commitment to overnight and I think, again, we need to look at a very considered speech, that talked about the role of solving the problems that cause massive displacement, as well as responding to the fact that the United States President actually drew international attention to this. In some ways, this illustrates the power of that office.
FAINE:
We will see. I hear you loud and clear and you are the Special Minister of State, a senior minister in the Turnbull Coalition Government and what eventuates when the dust settles and what actually transpires, will be measured against what the Prime Minister said and what you’ve told us today, Scott Ryan.
We put in calls to Peter Dutton and we spoke to his staff over in New York where he is attending this conference. He was not available. I am grateful that you were.
SENATOR RYAN:
Thanks Jon. Have a lovely day.
(ENDS)