Topics: Melbourne terror arrests, GST, WA agreement.
E&OE…
DAVID LIPSON
Joining me now to discuss this further is Senator Scott Ryan the Parliamentary Secretary for the Liberals and also Matt Thistlethwaite, the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Labor. Thank you both very much for your time.
Scott Ryan, first of all the arrest eighteen year old comes after a preventive detention order was placed on him, those lower threshold detention orders and the arrest thresholds were passed by Parliament in a bipartisan agreement set last year. It shows the importance, I suppose, of the anti-terror legislation Government’s been pushing?
SENATOR RYAN
You’re quite right David, without commenting on the details of this specific case, now that he is formally before the courts, those laws allow the police forces, both federal and state, to intervene where there was imminent risk of danger to the community and it reflected the fact that we are now facing a very different risk it is no longer what we saw fifteen to twenty years ago with well-planned operations that occurred so infamously on September 11 in the United States or years before that with the World Trade Centre bombing. The risk we now face is, what is colloquially referred to as the lone wolf, which is a handful of people using everyday tools and an iPhone and potentially committing an act of terror completely randomly on our streets in order to create a social media or internet sort of file which will be viewed by supporters and further radicalise people around the world. That’s a very different threat, and I think all Australians can support the work of our forces in pouncing on particular incidences when that risk gets to the point that intervention needs to take place.
LIPSON
Matt Thistlethwaite, I suppose one of the things that shocked many people is the age of these young men, the eighteen year old in Melbourne and overnight in the UK a fourteen year old has been arrested allegedly in connection with these anti-terrorism raids.
THISTLETHWAITE
It certainly is quite shocking David. Of course we don’t need to go into the details here because it’s before the courts but as Scott said it proves that these laws are needed and it proves that they are working, but we also need to point out that prior to the laws being enacted they went through a thorough process of review and inquiry through the parliamentary Joint Committee on Security and Intelligence. So, they weren’t a knee-jerk reaction, they were something that the Parliament considered over a long period of time, they were the recommendations of that particular committee after assessing the evidence and talking with security and intelligence agencies in Australia. It’s been a bipartisan commitment in ensuring that our authorities have the appropriate regulatory powers to deal with these issues before they become a problem, and in this case thankfully the laws are working.
LIPSON
On Q&A last night the Trade Minister Andrew Robb said that Imams, Muslim leaders, really need to do more he said it’s principally your problems, pointing to two Muslim leaders and the Muslim community. Do you agree with that sentiment Scott Ryan?
RYAN
I think he also made the point when he made that statement, I heard it played on radio this morning, that the Government is here to support you. I think what Andrew was reflecting, and he was quite involved in some programs in this space in a prior life in the Howard government, was that it is young Muslims that are being targeted for radicalisation and that’s something that is factually obvious to all of us. That they are being targeted by people overseas by a tiny number of people in Australia who have links overseas that seek to cause us harm. It is often male, young Muslims that are being targeted, and that’s what Andrew was pointing out. He also pointed out that our job is to do everything we can to assist, he was just pointing out what the target is.
LIPSON
And as for the Muslim leaders though, is there call for them now to do more than they are doing, they are working where possible to de-radicalise these young Australians, but are they doing enough?
RYAN
I think that we are not going to see a lot of this work. A lot of this will be inside the communities, and I think it is important to understand too, and Andrew did point this out on Q&A last night, the Islamic community in Australia is really diverse, it’s like talking about any other (religious) community, you have people from different parts of the world you’ve got different Islamic traditions, the largest part of the Islamic community is the Turkish community that has been here for many decades. So I think we need to be careful about talking about a large single community, we also need to be aware of where the threat is – the threat is coming from overseas. It is targeted at radicalising young Muslims, and particularly targeting young male Muslims, particularly those who are on the fringe of the Labour Market and are disengaged from various education or work opportunities. But the Islamic community leaders are doing a lot, I think all Andrew was pointing out was that they and the community need to be aware that it is them being targeted by these extremists.
LIPSON
Matt Thistlethwaite, your reaction to those comments from the Trade Minister? Do you believe that there is more that those in the Muslim community could be doing, or is it now the responsibility of others and the Government to step up?
THISTLETHWAITE
David, if you look at the characteristics of people throughout the world who are involved in these actions, they are disaffected young men. Certainly in the United States it is certainly young white men who go into the local Kmart and buy semi-automatic bullets and shoot people up. It is not characteristic to one religion I think, it is disaffected young men throughout the world. I think we all have an obligation to ensure that we are, at a Government level putting in place programs that mentor young men to ensure that they feel a part of society, if they are unemployed in particular to provide them with training and get them into the workforce as quickly as possible. So we all have an obligation throughout the whole society to work with young disaffected men to make them feel a part of community.
RYAN
I think we have got to be careful, I mean I did hear a community leader on radio yesterday in Melbourne talk about how there needs to be more engagement programmes. By all means we need to support those in the communities that are being targeted for radicalisation. But we do need to be careful to not dismiss this as a product of disengagement or unemployment because the great overwhelming majority of people who are facing those challenges don’t fall into this trap of radicalisation. There is something else at work here and we do need to accept that it’s not just about unemployment, dropping out of school or being on the fringes of society – there’s something else that’s acting as a trigger and this is why this is such a unique threat. We need to support the community leaders and all Australians who challenge it. That’s the point that was being made last night.
LIPSON
I want to turn to the GST and the premiers and the chief ministers meeting in July to discuss issues relating to the Federation with the Prime Minister – a summit that’s been organised. Mike Baird, the New South Wales Premier, wants the GST on the agenda, he wants everything on the table. Scott Ryan, should the GST be part of the discussions?
RYAN
Well I think the Prime Minister last week, at the post-COAG press conference, asked all premiers and national leaders to put aside partisan politics for this unique summit opportunity that he’s proposed. Mike Baird has floated an idea and I notice that the Queensland Premier has said ‘we don’t even want to consider it’. So I don’t know whether or not the new Premier of Queensland is actually reflecting the wishes of that statement following COAG. I’ve seen the reports about what Mike Baird’s asked for and I think all he has said is ‘let’s talk about the GST’, and he’s taking up the invitation of the Prime Minister. But the important point that the Prime Minister made is, given that every cent of the GST flows to the states, and given that a very key principle of the GST’s legislation over a decade ago was that it could only be changed with the consent of all the states, is that by all means the Premier can discuss it but there will be no change to it without the support and consensus of all the states and territories.
LIPSON
Matt Thistlethwaite, I understand Labor’s opposition to the GST but why shouldn’t it be discussed at the very least and in a way that that opposition could be put forward?
THISTLETHWAITE
David, there was a very important study that was released in the United States last week, which showed that if you reduce the price of fresh food and vegetables then people will consume more of them, particularly the poor and vulnerable in our community and I think that study just proves why we don’t have a GST on fresh food in Australia. If you want to talk about expanding the GST or increasing the rate, then there is going to be an effect in behaviour on Australians, predominantly the poor and vulnerable in our community. That’s why Labor is opposed to changing the GST. The other issue is, of course, that we made a commitment to the Australian public prior to the last election that we wouldn’t tamper with the GST, and Labor is meeting that commitment and saying that we won’t be involved in targeting the most vulnerable in our community, particularly when you’ve got massive tax concessions for high-end superannuation and the like, and other areas in the economy where you can create more revenue for the Budget and take some of that pressure off.
LIPSON
Matt Thistlethwaite, what about these $660 million that’s been reportedly offered to WA from the Federal Government in terms of the GST carve up? Is that an appropriate form of compensation? We don’t know in what form it will come but is that roughly the figure?
THISTLETHWAITE
Well look the first thing to say about that, David, is that all the states, budgets are under pressure because the Abbott Government has cut about $80 billion from health and education budgets. So they’re all looking at their forward estimates and thinking how are we going to fund growth in education and hospital funding into the future? That’s why the state budgets are under pressure. In respect of Western Australia, Bill Shorten did suggest a one-off payment, but it was in the nature of bringing forward some infrastructure funding so that the question that the Government now needs to answer, and perhaps Scott can enlighten us here on this, is this $660 million payment bringing forward infrastructure investment? Is it a one-off payment? Is it an asset recycling component? I think the Australian public deserve the right to know how this funding is being delivered.
LIPSON
Scott Ryan, can you tell us whether this is infrastructure spending brought forward, or a general revenue grant?
RYAN
Well look I’ve seen the reports of this and, as Matt pointed out, the principle of this was supported by Bill Shorten. The Budget is in three weeks today, so everything will be laid clear then. There’s no need for the mock outrage that Matt’s just shown – there’s been a newspaper report and in due course there will be an announcement. I don’t think anyone begrudges the fact that the flaws in the system that we have, or the challenges in the system we have in distributing GST revenue are particularly acute for Western Australia. For Victorians, we’ve always been net contributors but our share hasn’t dropped in the unpredictable way Western Australia’s has. But I do need to correct something that Matt pointed out: this mythical $80 billion cut that he mentions. In no year of the Budget or its forward estimates is there a reduction in spending by the Commonwealth for the states on health and education. There is a slowing of the growth, starting three years from now, because Labor made promises with money that didn’t exist. If I come in here and promise to give you and Matt a million dollars each in five years but you both know that I’m not going to have it to give it to you, then you can’t count on it. We have put in place responsible budgeting arrangements that see ongoing growth in health and education, but the rate of growth slows in three years – that’s all the Government has done. So, the state budgets are under pressure for reasons of their own making.
LIPSON
There was mention, though, in the Budget papers about $80 billion less over 10 years, but that is a debate for another day.
RYAN
Which is a reduction in growth – that’s the important thing.
LIPSON
It is, you’re right.
THISTLETHWAITE
(Inaudible).
LIPSON
I’m going to have to jump right in because we are completely out of time. I’ve got to throw to a break. Thank you both very much for joining us.
(ENDS)