Topics: Government’s performance, Victorian Liberal Party, higher education, Medicare co-payment, business taxes, school funding and upcoming party room meeting.
E&OE…
PATRICIA KARVELAS
Scott Ryan is the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education and Training, he joins me now on RN Drive. Welcome to the program, Scott.
SCOTT RYAN
Good evening, Patricia. How are you?
KARVELAS
Really well. Let’s start by getting your position on this, here’s what Arthur Sinodinos had to say yesterday:
(Recording of Senator Sinodinos)
Arthur Sinodinos’ support isn’t unconditional, is yours?
RYAN
I completely support the Prime Minister, Patricia. I mean my position in the ministry, as part of Tony Abbott’s team, is not unconditional. But explicitly, like all his senior colleagues, I completely support Tony Abbott remaining Prime Minister.
KARVELAS
Ok. Let’s get to Arthur Sinodinos’ critique, he’s not happy with the way that policy has been rolled out. Particularly, he was critical of the GP co-payment and the long process for bringing that forward; he said ‘that it wasn’t working’. Do you agree with that?
RYAN
Well, I think we’ve got to learn the lessons of last year. Arthur is a major figure in the history of recent Liberal governments; he served with distinction as John Howard’s chief of staff, and the Howard government was a very successful government. I know Arthur well and I know he’s highly regarded and looking at last year, looking at our results and our feedback, the truth is that we do have to learn the lessons of last year. And some of that is about how we communicate with the Australian people and how we put the case for what we believe is necessary change to make the Budget sustainable.
KARVELAS
Yesterday the former Victorian premier Jeff Kennett said that Tony Abbott must be dumped as quickly as possible. As you know, he has said that his leadership is terminal, that it’s like hitting a brick wall; he certainly didn’t hold back. This has widely been seen as the Victorian branch of the Liberal Party effectively showing that they’re not supporting Tony Abbott any longer. You are a Victorian senator, how does Victoria feel about Tony Abbott? The Victorian branch of the Liberal Party?
RYAN
Well if you walk through the community in Victoria, like the party in Victoria, there’s a lot of different opinions. In this case Jeff Kennett, widely respected, led one of the most successful reformist state governments in our nation’s history, but I can respect him and at the same time disagree with him on this. And so the Victorian division, there’s no formal mechanism by which such things are addressed; but the Victorian ministers as part of Tony Abbott’s ministry, like myself, have all indicated our support for Tony Abbott.
KARVELAS
Ok. Let’s get to Victoria though, as a state; Tony Abbott’s not very popular in Victoria.
RYAN
Look, we have some electoral challenges in Victoria; we narrowly lost the state election. For most of my lifetime, Patricia, the Liberal Party has had challenges in Victoria. I think that out of the last 10 or 12 elections, we’ve actually only beaten Labor four times…
(Inaudible)
KARVELAS:
Scott, I don’t know we’re you’re standing but if you could stand somewhere with a bit better mobile coverage that would help.
Asking about Victoria again: the Prime Minister, as you concede, has problems in Victoria. It’s not just the Liberal brand that has problems in Victoria, is it? Tony Abbott specifically has problems in Victoria.
RYAN:
Well every leader the Liberal Party’s had in the last 20 years, including John Howard, has had challenges in Victoria; we’ve actually been a bit more successful in Western Australia and Queensland …
KARVELAS:
But Tony Abbott’s problems are worse in Victoria than the other Liberal leaders that you talk of.
RYAN
We have some real challenges now in Victoria and that is reflected in the fact that polling numbers here are a little bit lower, but at the same time we have some challenges around the country. This is not a specific Victorian problem by any stretch of the imagination. We need to make the case for the changes we want to make, some of which are very difficult and Andrew Robb outlined those as you heard on your program earlier.
KARVELAS
Is it unrealistic for Tony Abbott to ask colleagues to stop discussing internal politics?
RYAN
No, I don’t think you win support for difficult changes from voters by talking about politics, naval gazing and what’s going on in Canberra. You win support for policies, especially the difficult ones, by explaining to voters why we think they’re necessary and why they are in the long-term interests of the community. So I would urge my colleagues as well, let’s talk about the issues that we want to bring to the Australian people, and the issues that concern them, that ranges from Medicare, to tax policies to national security, as we saw with the Prime Minister this morning.
KARVELAS
On RN Drive this is Patricia Karvelas, I’m speaking to Scott Ryan, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education and Training and a senior Victorian Senator as well. I wonder can you envisage a leadership change in this term of Government. Are there any circumstances under which you can see the Liberal Party and the Government could be led by a different leader?
RYAN
I can’t foresee the circumstances where there would be a leadership change. The Australian people react … (Interrupted)
KARVELAS
Would it be acceptable to you if the party room made the decision that the Prime Minister should be moved, and a new leader to take over, do you think that is democratic?
RYAN
Well I know the Prime Minister made the point the other day, the Prime Minister has a unique mandate from the people, it is his photo on every polling booth. In a technical sense the Prime Minister, or the leader of the party, is chosen by the political party and members of parliament, I appreciate that. But I do think that even with what we saw in Victoria with a change of leader, what people do feel is a sense of investment in a person who wins an election, the most prominent person being the person who wins as Prime Minister, and I think it is most appropriate that we give the Prime Minister the room to implement the policies that we took to the election.
KARVELAS
Can we talk policy?
RYAN
I would love to.
KARVELAS
Good, because everyone says they want to talk policy, so I would like to talk policy with you. Which policies do you think you need to change from last year’s budget, which ones do you think need a real look at? Do you think the higher education policy needs a second look now that the public has given their verdict that they are not particularly happy with the agenda you are trying to roll out?
RYAN
Well we actually have had a second look at the higher education changes. So the policy that was announced in the budget last year included changing the real interest rate both for students with debts already and those starting university. And it actually talked about more substantial changes to university recurrent funding arrangements. The policy that we brought back in after it was initially rejected by the Senate, after discussions with crossbenchers, and that is still going on now, is one that is supported by every single vice-chancellor, bar one, around the country, and every single sector of the universities. So we have listened, and those changes have been made, so there is already a second iteration of that.
KARVELAS
All right, GP co-payment, do you need to shelve the whole plan?
RYAN:
Well I think (interrupted)
KARVELAS
Because that is effectively what Arthur was arguing?
RYAN
It is a very difficult policy area and it was when it was first proposed by Bob Hawke and then John Hewson over two decades ago. I think we need to make the case in such a way that says people like you and I Patricia, our health is our most important asset. We can afford to make a small contribution when we see a doctor that helps bring some money into the system and allows doctors and services to be funded with potentially no fee for those who can’t afford it. I think we need to make the case in a personal sense like that.
KARVELAS
So you do still support the concept of a co-payment?
RYAN
I support the concept of some type of contribution by those who can afford it. And I think by those who can afford it is the critical test.
KARVELAS
So you do think that the policy should remain, you don’t agree with Arthur?
RYAN
What I am saying is that this is a policy that has already evolved once, and I think what Arthur was suggesting was that when we bring in difficult policies like that we shouldn’t potentially leave them so much time before they come to the Senate, and we should undertake consultation and build public support for them along the way. That is what Sussan Ley is doing. She had a consultation with doctors in Queensland I think, in Brisbane, today about this very issue. If the policy is those who can afford it make a contribution, I think that is a reasonable position to put and I think a lot of people would support that.
KARVELAS
On this levy that was a part of the paid parental leave scheme on big business, the 1.5 per cent levy, what do you think about this levy? Do you think it should still remain now that the money is all going to childcare?
RYAN
Well you’ll respect Patricia that this is well outside my portfolio area
KARVELAS
What do you think about the idea of putting a tax like that on big business? I imagine that you’re a classical liberal, you would be troubled by that instinctively, would you not?
RYAN
Taxes are a necessary evil is the way I view them. So let’s wait and see what the Treasurer and the people directly responsible for that come out with. They have guaranteed that no business will be worse off. They haven’t gone into more detailed, they have said small businesses will get a tax cut. That might lead to some people making assumptions, which I have noticed in the press over the last couple of days. But let’s see what the announcement is before we start making judgments.
KARVELAS
There was a report yesterday again that the Prime Minister’s office, Peta Credlin, his chief of staff, had again given her overriding view and vetoed the decision of Sussan Ley for having her own chief of staff in that office. This has become a very big theme that constantly comes up. What is your view of the way that the Prime Minister’s office is functioning? Do you think there need to be more changes? Have the changes that have been made already, are they ultimately just cosmetic?
RYAN
Well I have a strict view on these matters Patricia, I don’t comment on staffing matters. Staff are not publically elected officials. They are not accountable in the same way whether it be to parliamentary committees or to people through elections and I simply do not comment on staffing matters. We are elected, we are accountable for our actions, our staff support us in the work that we do, and we are the ones that need to be questioned and tested.
KARVELAS
I want to ask you one last question then on your policy area, the area that you are Parliamentary Secretary to the Education Minister. Staying on that topic, there was a report in today’s Australian that shows that schools with the biggest boost in funding because of this Gonski model are actually very elite schools and this is linked to disability, the extra loading for disability. Do you think this is fair?
RYAN:
Well that report took numbers a bit out of context, and context here is important. There are 27 different school funding models around Australia under the reforms we inherited from Labor. Traditionally schools that are non-government have not received the same amount of funding for students with disabilities. My mother was the principal of a Catholic school in Melbourne, and often kids would leave a Catholic school and go to a state school, even one nearby with siblings remaining, because they wouldn’t have access to the same support if they needed extra assistance at school. What those numbers are, are Commonwealth numbers based on increasing the funding for students with disability to certain schools. It varies quite widely based on students, and it also varies quite widely based on how much those schools needed to catch up. What we don’t know and we don’t have, what the Commonwealth doesn’t have data on, is how much money states give to schools for similar students with a similar disability and it would be the same amount, but we give that money to the states and it is all pooled, it’s aimed at bringing everyone up to the same level. So it’s a little bit out of context.
KARVELAS
Scott Ryan, let’s pretend it is Tuesday next week what is going to happen in this party room meeting?
RYAN
I think we will have a frank discussion?
KARVELAS
How frank, how frank Scott?
RYAN
It will be very frank, I have no doubt it will be very frank. Liberal MPs don’t feel shy about sharing opinions with each other, and hopefully in private.
KARVELAS
Do you expect it to get pretty fiery?
RYAN
I wouldn’t say fiery, I would say very frank. We have policy challenges that we need to address. We need to review the successes and failures of last year, and we have had some notable successes. We’ve implemented three of our key commitments to the Australian people in removing taxes and stopping the boats. And we also need to address, quite frankly, how we sell these policies to the Australian people to generate support for them, because that in the end is what makes for successful policy, if it is good for the country and that it has public support.
KARVELAS
Scott Ryan, thanks so much for joining me on RN Drive.
RYAN
Thanks Patricia.
*Ends*