Topics: National School Chaplaincy Programme.

E&OE…

TOM ELLIOTT

All right, earlier on in the program I spoke to Marty Fields, he’ll be well known to many of you, he’s very upset and rightly so. A psychologist, who has been a school counsellor at his daughter’s primary school, a state primary school, for over three years – very popular, very successful by all accounts – has just been told her funding for her position will be cut by the Federal Government. This is because the new counsellor programme (sic) is only open to chaplains. That is, you must have some sort of religious qualification. Joining me on the line now is Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education, Senator Scott Ryan. Good afternoon.

SCOTT RYAN

G’day, Tom. How are you?

ELLIOTT

Good thanks. Now, this programme used to be called the chaplaincy and social workers programme, but I think in this year’s Federal Budget it was changed just to the chaplaincy programme. Why on earth do you have to have a religious qualification to counsel kids?

RYAN

Well firstly, Tom, the way it was reported to me earlier was that your caller said they had to have a Bachelor of Theology degree and they could only go through Access Ministries. Now, both of those are untrue – neither of those things are true…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] Well, they’re saying that the state government, who administers the programme, is the one insisting upon that.

RYAN

Well, I’ve just checked the state guidelines online before I came on air, and that’s not the case. The programme was originally called the school chaplaincy programme under the Howard government, and then the Gillard government, or it might have been the Rudd government, actually added a component to it for student welfare officers. There are about 3600 positions across the country, but just under 3000 of them are school chaplains. Now, every single one of those lost their job at the end of this year because under Labor there was no money for this in the Budget next year. So without the announcement by the current Government in May, every single Commonwealth-funded school chaplain and student welfare officer was out of a job at the end of this school year.

ELLIOTT

Okay, so you’ve reintroduced the programme, but it’s only open to chaplains. Now I don’t get that – I don’t understand why…

RYAN

[Interrupts] Okay so what we did, Tom, was, in a very, very tight Budget, we funded the 2900 school chaplaincy positions, which is the commitment we made before the election – and I think you’ll appreciate how difficult the Budget was.

ELLIOTT

Sure.

RYAN

That’s $250 million, or just under it, over four years, so schools will get four-year funding. Our view was that there are school chaplains in schools right around the country that don’t get any Government funding. We’ve seen school chaplains in Victorian state schools for decades – I went to Catholic schools myself…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] But a Catholic school is not a state school.

RYAN

No, I appreciate that but there have been school chaplains in state schools for decades.

ELLIOTT

Okay.

RYAN

What the Commonwealth did was it actually provided a bit of funding, often for those schools who can’t afford it. And so this money there is for schools who choose to apply – there are only about 600 positions in Victoria [inaudible]…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] Okay, but I’m sorry. I see all of the history here, and that’s fine, and I see how you got to where you are, but when you stand back and look at it, here’s a woman who does a very good job to counsel kids whose families are going through difficulties – marriage break-ups and the like. She’s well-liked, her position was funded, but now it’s not because the one thing she lacks is some sort of religious qualification.

RYAN

Well, that’s not true. Every school that’s currently got a chaplain has to reapply and there’s an independent panel [inaudible]…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] Yes, I know. But I’m sorry – it has to apply – but the point is the only people who can apply are people with religious qualifications. She’s a psychologist.

RYAN

No, what they have to – the basic requirements of the programme are a Certificate IV in Youth Work or Pastoral Care, and endorsement by a religious organisation and that can be of any faith…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] Yes, but why? What if I want to – I’m an atheist – you’re saying that I might be the best – I’m not, but let’s just say I’m the best person with kids out there – qualified and experienced and whatever, but because I don’t happen to believe in God, I can’t apply for a position at a state school?

RYAN

Well, it’s important to say this is not just Christian – there are Jewish, Buddhist, Islamic chaplains…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] What about atheist ones?

RYAN

Well, the point of the programme was to give schools that choose to apply something they often don’t have the resources for. Now, student welfare officers – the Premier made an announcement about that on the weekend in Ballarat – he talked about primary schools having access to welfare officers. The Commonwealth’s view is that that should be part of every school’s day-to-day work.

The chaplaincy programme is for those schools who opt in and choose to apply for something extra, and on top of that there’s prohibitions on proselytising and attempts to convert children – there have been very few complaints of that over the nine years the programme has run…

ELLIOTT

[Interrupts] I know that. I mean, what complaints have come have come more about the special religious instruction issue, which is separate from this. But, I guess, when the rubber hits the road here, we’ve got someone who was funded and is no longer funded because she requires some form of religious, I don’t know, I’ll say qualification for want of a better term. But she needs a church to say ‘yes, this is the right person’. We know that she’s good with kids – everybody at the school says so – she’s a very good counsellor. I just don’t see why we’re being so hung up on this religious qualification.

RYAN

Well, the rationale for the promise made prior to the election, which we’re delivering on – and I think that is an important point – is that in an era where we have very limited financial resources, we don’t want Commonwealth funds that have been diverted to what should be the day-to-day responsibilities of schools, and what we have here is something that in schools I’ve gone through right across Australia, it’s $20,000 a year for a part-time school chaplain.

They are enormously valued; they’re particularly good in disadvantaged areas because they provide something extra that schools have on top of their student welfare obligations. And often they’re working with parents, like you said, as much as they are with students and occasionally with staff.

ELLIOTT

Senator Scott Ryan, thank you for your time.

RYAN

Thanks Tom.

ELLIOTT

Scott Ryan there, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education.

(Ends)