Topics: Ebola, international surrogacy, Budget, proposed anti-terror laws
E&OE…
Chris Hammer
We’re joined now by Liberal Senator for Victoria, Scott Ryan. Good morning Senator.
Scott Ryan
Good morning Chris.
Hammer
Now, the US Secretary of State, John Kerry, has called for more countries to do more in West Africa. Should Australia be helping?
Ryan
Well Australia is helping Chris, we’re now helping out to the tune of $18 million I understand, and our contribution was described by the UN as exactly the sort of rapid contribution they sought from member states. We’re providing essentially money that allows the purchase of supplies. It’s not an area that we have extensive infrastructure in, and it’s importantly not an area where we have the capacity to evacuate an Australian and we’ve seen some of those evacuations occur to Europe and North America from health workers over there in recent weeks.
Hammer
Is it a concern though that we don’t have that capability? We’ve seen diseases like HIV, spread from West Africa into our neighbour PNG for example, if there was such an outbreak in PNG, or the Pacific, do we need that sort of capability to put in field hospitals that can handle contagious diseases?
Ryan
Well I think the issue with West Africa is that we don’t have the capacity to evacuate an Australian. It is a particularly long way away. Most of the countries that have staff there are within a single flight, there’s not a plane in the world I don’t think that could do that flight to Australia direct. When we’ve seen health issues emerge in our region, whether that be tuberculosis or HIV to our north, or occasionally something more acute such as avian flu, that’s where Australia does really have expertise, in our region where we can put resources on the ground.
Hammer
Should the Federal Government clamp down on international surrogacy?
Ryan
Well Chris, I read the story this morning and I heard it on the radio, and it was gut-wrenching to hear. I mean I don’t know all the facts, but what I’ve heard, for people to sort of take one twin because of gender and leave another, I find morally I just can’t deal with that. I don’t know what would lead to someone making such a decision. Yesterday there were those calls to the Attorney General, that conference was looking at family law more generally, and as I understand it the Attorney General has said that he’ll consider their requests for a federal enquiry, having heard those stories and that evidence.
Hammer
I guess surrogacy at the moment is covered by state laws in the same way that adoption is, but the Federal Government does have a role in coordinating, as I understand it, adoption policies. Is there a role here for the Federal Government in light of some of these stories that are emerging about these international cases of surrogacy?
Ryan
Well I think from the stories I’ve heard, and again I hasten to add I don’t know all the facts, is that I am uncomfortable with the stories that have come to light in Australia in recent months. Personally I am uncomfortable. The Federal Government does have a role of course in international arrangements of this nature because there are visas required for people to bring a child back to Australia. Within Australia I think the states are entirely competent. The lesson here though is also that there are limits on what Australian law can do, because we’re seeing as there were restrictions put in place quite a long time ago in Australia in various states on surrogacy after quite long debates, we now see that people can now go overseas and so I do think we also have to be aware that there are limits to what the law can achieve. We all hope, I think, that stories we’ve heard like today and recently about the young baby in Thailand, I think we all hope we don’t hear any more stories like that and that we could do something to prevent such sad circumstances.
Hammer
So in Australia in some states surrogacy is permitted, but not commercial surrogacy, it can’t be for profit. So your personal opinion, would you like to see that same sort of rule apply to international surrogacy?
Ryan
Well I think one of the things we have to look at is, how could such a rule be enforced? Because we don’t have the same access overseas that we could gain access to in Australia to enforce a ban on commercial surrogacy. I think this is something that we do need to look at what’s happening in other parts of the world, but the key driver has to be the interests of the child. I know some people have used the term ‘child trafficking’ in the media this morning, I think all Australians would be uncomfortable with children being seen as commodities. Overwhelmingly of course, most people involved in surrogacy are seeking a child for all the right reasons and going about it the right way, and there’s a lot of people doing it with family members in Australia, so we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater here, to use that turn of phrase, we should keep in mind that the interests of the child must always remain paramount.
Hammer
Senator there’s renewed pressure on the Budget. The Government’s having trouble getting some of its savings measures through the Senate, there’s a fall in commodities prices, the international economic situation seems to be deteriorating. Is it time for the Government to drop Tony Abbott’s Paid Parental Leave scheme?
Ryan
Well let’s look at the Budget firstly. We have got a lot of our budget measures through, we’re still negotiating, we’re still talking about other budget measures. We always knew this would be difficult because it is rare for a government to be able to get passage of bills automatically through the Senate, it is normal to negotiate with cross-benchers. Regarding the PPL scheme, what must be remembered about that is that it is fully funded; it doesn’t come at a cost to the Budget. It was fully funded before the 2010 election, it was fully funded before the 2013 election, and as the Prime Minister has said, we’ve taken it to two elections as party policy and we will seek to implement it, but it doesn’t come at a cost to the Budget, it’s fully funded as program in and of itself.
Hammer
Is it going to be difficult for the Government to even its budget projections in the out years, given the deteriorating international situation and such things as commodity prices?
Ryan
Well I think one thing that’s important to remember, as the Treasurer and the Prime Minister have made clear, is that our budget forecasting is based on a more realistic view of the international economy. The constant complaint and excuse that we heard from Wayne Swan was that his forecast, that a lot of people never believed about constant growths in revenue, somehow it was the fact that those forecasts weren’t meant to cause the budget deficit. Now we aim to spend within our means, so we’ve already forecast, in our budget forecasts and budget estimates, a drop in that key international commodity prices and yes, they are fluctuating further. But the key challenge we have in balancing the budget and fixing Labor’s mess is that the Labor Party, who created the problem, won’t let us get on with the job and fix it, nor will they come up with an alternative.
Hammer
There’s been some criticism of the Government’s new anti-terror laws, particularly those elements that have been referred to as “hate speech.” There’s been some concern that they’re too broad and could capture people who are simply, if you like, quoting religious texts, like the Bible or the Koran or the Torah, which do have passages that are violent and exhort people to violence in them.
Ryan
Well I did again see those reports this morning. I don’t think they’re realistic claims, we must remember that when we have the application of such laws, it requires two stages before it even gets to court, there must be a police investigation, and then the independent Director of Public Prosecutions, who is independent of government, has to make a decision as to whether they should prosecute. At both those stages there is judgement. I do not see it realistic, anywhere in Australia, for a religious preacher to be quoting from a religious text, and not promoting violence, I don’t see anyone like that being prosecuted like that, I think that’s unimaginable and I don’t think it’s within the scope of the law.
Hammer
But isn’t that unfair to the police and prosecutors to say “look, this is what the written law is, but you make your judgement about whether to prosecute or not?” Wouldn’t that expose them to allegations of bias if they prosecute one group and not another?
Ryan
I think that there’s always judgement, that’s why we have an independent Office of Public Prosecutions, and they were brought in across Australia at the national level decades ago to precisely have a sort of judgement, and to ensure consistent application of the law. But all laws, virtually all laws I should say, are written in such a way that always require judgement in how they’re enforced. Our police, our courts are not robotic, they do exercise judgement. The point I’m making is that I think to say that someone quoting from the King James Bible or the Koran is going to find themselves arrested and charged under the laws that are being considered by parliament, I just don’t think that’s a realistic example.
Hammer
And just finally Senator, we were just discussing the Budget and the difficult path the Government faces there, that’s obviously made more difficult if official statistics aren’t accurate, how concerning is it to you that the ABS seems to have made errors in reporting unemployment figures?
Ryan
Well it’s concerning but it’s also gratifying that they noted it and they could fix it. So while we wish the mistake was not made, it’s also good that they noted that the mistake had been made and they could issue a public correction. But this is symbolic, there have been a lot of challenges at the Bureau of Statistics in recent years. The position of chief statistician has been vacant, and it’s been under-resourced and has needed substantial capital spending to upgrade its computer systems. Under the previous government it was starved of those resources.
Hammer
Ok Senator Scott Ryan, thanks for your time today.
Ryan
Thanks Chris.
(Ends)