E&OE…

KIERAN GILBERT
This is AM Agenda, with me now Scott Ryan and Matt Thistlethwaite. Matt, first to you. A very warm reception, according to Greg Hunt, for Malcolm Turnbull. It is a very clear shift in, at least the international perception of the Government, when it comes to this issue, even though the policy hasn’t changed a great deal.

MATT THISTLETHWAITE
And that is the great shame, Kieran, the policy has not changed. Yesterday in the Parliament Julie Bishop confirmed that it is still the policy of this Government to get rid of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation and the Australian Renewable Energy Agency; they have cut budgets. The Prime Minister talks about innovation in renewable energies; well these are the two bodies that were specifically established to drive innovation.

GILBERT
They won’t get rid of them. They can’t get rid of them though, can they? Through the Senate, you’re blocking them, so it is a moot point isn’t it?

THISTLETHWAITE
Well, thank God for the Labor Party and blocking that because these are bodies that are working. You have seen the Clean Energy Finance Corporation financing about $11 billion worth of investment in renewable energy; it is doing its job. But, Julie Bishop confirmed yesterday that that is the policy of this Government.

GILBERT
Senator Ryan, it doesn’t take much to spook some of the conservative members of your Party. As we have mentioned, and Julie Bishop told me as well – we have that interview a bit later – the policy hasn’t changed, yet some of your members of the conservative side of the Party are spooked by the fact that the Prime Minister is in Paris and by his language.

SCOTT RYAN
Well, I wouldn’t characterise it that way. I think the Party has responded very well and will, we have a Party Room meeting later today. The Prime Minister made the point that he is one of the few prime ministers or leaders of any government in Paris that is actually outlining how we’ve met and exceeded our targets. Not, this is an area of public policy that has, more than most, been cursed with statements of principle and promises that are completely unkept. So, leaders go there and get headlines about promises that they don’t intend to be around for, and the country never delivers. Well, Australia has delivered.

GILBERT
So why are some of your colleagues getting worked up when he hasn’t even changed the policy? He is talking about five year reviews which is something the Government has been arguing for.

RYAN
The policy we announced and the policy of the Prime Minister hasn’t changed, it is the equal largest per capita cuts in the developed world and it is a policy that is backed up by a record of commitment. Australia is not going to go there and make unrealistic commitments, which the Labor Party and the Greens in their bidding war for the Left want us to undertake, that the country can’t meet or that will impose exorbitant costs on the Australian economy.

GILBERT
And everyone is happy in your Party Room with where things are?

RYAN
The truth: there was some angst around some movements by the Greens and occasionally Labor mouthed support for this and the NGOs; that is part of their consistent attack on the diesel fuel rebate which misleadingly characterised it as a subsidy. It is basically not applying a road user charge to people that don’t use diesel on the roads. And Labor and the…

(Interrupted)

GILBERT
It is a New Zealand submission. The New Zealand Government is putting this forward.

RYAN
But what the New Zealand Government is putting forward is about subsidies. What the document also contains is a foot note that, as Greg Hunt just outlined, can be used by the NGOs and the Greens to mischaracterise the diesel fuel rebate and also effectively calls for carbon taxes of the sort that the Australian people have made clear that they are not going to have.

GILBERT
So you would support the Government in that as well then? I guess in the Government not signing that communique when it comes to the rebates particularly when – fossil fuel subsidies I should say – when this rebate is entirely legitimate.

THISTLETHWAITE
We don’t have any plans to change the rebate, but Labor’s policy is very clear: we will transition away from coal-fired power to clean energy over the course of the next thirty-five years, so that by 2050, we will have hopefully all of our power generated from renewable sources; wind, solar, geothermal and the like. The problem with this Government’s approach is that they want to remain stuck with coal-fired energy. Now, if we do that our kids are going to pay the consequences into the future. So, Labor’s policy is very clear: transition to fully renewable energy over the course of the next thirty-five years and make that a bonus for our economy.

GILBERT
This is something that many in the sector believe is going to happen anyway, and the Prime Minister always talks about disruptive technology and the innovation and that could well happen naturally, couldn’t it?

RYAN
This is the key thing about this policy area, the change will be driven by technological advancement. The difference is the CEFC is not actually funding major innovation; it is actually funding the rollout of existing technology.

(Interrupted)

THISTLETHWAITE
No it is not, it is funding new technology that wouldn’t get up otherwise.

RYAN
Despite the misleading comments of Labor and the Greens, who have now signed up to this unrealistic target, without major technological advancement we actually still need fossil fuel coal-based power for base-load electricity. We simply do not have the technology that allows that to be replaced. Technology will solve this problem, just as out industries are now far less polluting than they were fifty years ago, one hundred years ago and one hundred and fifty years ago. Technology will solve this issue, but it is something that will evolve. It is not something that can be solved by politicians printing a bumper sticker.

GILBERT
But base-load power could be provided by renewables within the foreseeable future if storage capacity – batteries and so on – is achieved.

RYAN
You need breakthroughs in batteries and you still need to have better storage overall.

(Interrupted)

GILBERT
But that could well happen?

RYAN
Exactly, it could well happen.

THISTLETHWAITE
It will happen.

RYAN
It could well happen, but it needs major technological advancement. It is not going to happen because a politician makes a promise or a bumper sticker. It is actually going to happen because of technological advancement and development that rolls out through the economy.

THISTLETHWAITE
I am really confused. I mean you have the Prime Minister talking about the Government driving innovation in renewable energies and you have Scott talking about a completely different thing, and you had the Foreign Minister talking about a completely different thing in the Parliament yesterday. The only Party with a clear consistent plan to transition to renewable energy is the Labor Party and we have outlined that.

(Interrupted)

RYAN
You have no plan. You have no idea how to do it.

THISTLETHWAITE
You need the Government to drive that investment, to drive that change and to drive that transition to renewable energy, to cleaner energy, and that is what Labor’s policy does; we have a clear path to do that.

GILBERT
Matt Thistlethwaite, Scott Ryan, appreciate it.

RYAN
Thanks, Kieran.

(ENDS)