Subjects: Parakeelia; Attorney General; Anne Aly; Joe Baffone and the CFA; Barnaby Joyce and the relocation of federal departments and authorities; Greens and Labor coalition government; strong border protection policies; same-sex marriage plebiscite; Nick Xenophon threat in South Australia.

EO&E………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

JON FAINE:

The Liberal Party have nominated Senator Scott Ryan to join us this morning as we try to help you make up your mind, if you are one of those undecided. After the news headlines we will try to work out if there is some prospect of resolving the CFA dispute with the two of the major players, Peter Marshall from the Union and Andrew Ford from the Volunteer Fire Brigades Victoria. Both joining us after the 9 o’clock news. Senator Scott Ryan, on behalf of the Liberal Party, good morning to you and welcome.

SCOTT RYAN:

Good morning Jon, thanks for having me.

JON FAINE:

Is the Liberal Party refusing an anti-corruption body because of your concerns over the investigation of Parakeelia, the company that is channelling taxpayers’ money to Liberal Party coffers?

SCOTT RYAN:

Not at all Jon. I have been in Parliament nearly 8 years, actually 8 years today, and I have never supported one of those organisations at the federal level. The nature of federal politics and the degree of scrutiny that occurs, the fact that things are brought to public attention quite regularly through Senate Estimates processes, a strong Auditor General – I don’t think there is a need for one at the federal level.

JON FAINE:

For an anti-corruption body or an investigation into Parakeelia?

SCOTT RYAN:

For a body like you talk about.

JON FAINE:

Why shouldn’t Parakeelia be investigated?

SCOTT RYAN:

It is not a matter for me to determine. I know that the Liberal Party…

(Interrupted)

JON FAINE:

I am not asking you to determine it; I am asking you for some cogent reasons as to why it shouldn’t be investigated. It doesn’t pass the sniff test for a second.

SCOTT RYAN:

It is not a matter for me to determine, therefore I am not going to provide reasons for or against. The Liberal Party organisation has made clear that if people were to seek queries or to look at the matter then we would completely cooperate.

JON FAINE:

If it is not investigated, isn’t that a matter for investigation in itself? If the Government is returned and there is no investigation into their own internal doings that, in my mind, reinforces the need for an independent anti-corruption body in this country.

SCOTT RYAN:

There are lots of independent actors and independent mechanisms at the Commonwealth level that I think at the state level, most people would agree, don’t exist to the same degree. Whether they bee Senate Committees or a particularly strong Audit Office and Auditor General. I think that actually differentiates and establishes a clear difference between what happens in Canberra and some of the things we see on a state government level.

JON FAINE:

You ignored my question. If there is not an investigation into Parakeelia, in my mind that confirms even more the need for that to be something to be decided independently on politicians, because your Party does not want an investigation into itself.

SCOTT RYAN:

No, Jon, the Liberal Party has made clear that if someone was to seek queries or information or investigate then we would completely cooperate. And there are independent mechanisms for that to occur in Canberra. It is not a decision just for politicians.

JON FAINE: 

Your colleague, the Senator and Attorney General, George Brandis is accused by the Labor Party of having lied to the Senate about not a small matter, but a major matter. A direction he has issued to the Commonwealth Solicitor General that all legal advice to the Government, including advice on Constitutional problems in the event of a hung Parliament, must go through the office of the Attorney General. The Solicitor General has made it clear that he has never agreed or been consulted on such a measure. Why should we trust Senator Brandis after he has mislead you and other Senators?

SCOTT RYAN:

Jon, not being a lawyer and it being well outside of my portfolio, I can only comment on what I have seen in the media. I don’t think the way that you have characterised it has been established-

JON FAINE:

Which part of how I characterised it?

SCOTT RYAN:

You said the Labor Party had accused George Brandis of misleading the Senate. I don’t think that has been conceded by Senator Brandis.

(Interrupted)

JON FAINE:

No, it never will be. The correspondence has been released.

SCOTT RYAN:

That area is well outside of my portfolio-

JON FAINE:

It has been published in the Australian Financial Review, other media have ignored it.

SCOTT RYAN:

And Jon, what I will say is that I am not going to comment on something particularly well outside of my portfolio responsibilities, or indeed my specific knowledge.

JON FAINE:

In Western Australia, one of Australia’s leading authorities on anti-radicalisation has offered her services to the Parliament, she sort nomination for the Labor Party and is a candidate for a seat in Western Australia. Her name is Anne Aly; the Liberal Party have trashed her reputation, even though she has been invited to the White House to give advice on anti-radicalisation. For the sake of a few votes, you are prepared to trash the reputation of somebody whose knowledge and understanding of one of the biggest challenges we face could be of vital importance to the nation’s future and security?

SCOTT RYAN:

Jon, I think what you described as colourful language I think others could describe as robust political debate, and we are in an election campaign.

JON FAINE:

It has been suggested by your colleague Michael Keenan, the Justice Minister, that she supports terrorists, in fact she is an expert on radicalisation measures. For the sake of a few votes – I put it to you again Senator Ryan – you’d trash the reputation of someone whose contribution to public life could well be invaluable.

SCOTT RYAN:

And Jon, you summarised what the Minister for Justice, Michael Keenan, has said. And I don’t think he actually used those words. I think there is a robust political debate and attention was brought to that Labor candidates’ support for someone, I believe, in a sentencing hearing.  Look, it is an election campaign. And I don’t think you would be the first to suggest that debate gets robust, that attention is drawn to people’s records as well as their contributions.

JON FAINE:

So anything goes? It doesn’t matter how you rip into somebody? No matter what, it is all excused because of the election?

SCOTT RYAN:

After 9 o’clock you are dealing with the biggest issue at the moment here in Victoria where yesterday we saw the most outrageous assault on a person who has served the country and the state in emergency services for decades, when the Deputy Premier walked out and said ‘he just did this because he wanted more money’. Which everyone from the former Emergency Services Commissioner to people who have known Joe Baffone for years have come out and said it is an outrageous slur.

JON FAINE:

Barnaby Joyce, the Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party announces a massive relocation of public servants and a government department to his electorate. Pork-barrelling on a grand scale, no business case, no competitive process, no expressions of interest from anywhere else in the country. Why shouldn’t we declare that for what it is? A complete misuse of public funds.

SCOTT RYAN:

We went to the last election saying there would be relocations of public service departments and organisations to areas where they often were particularly involved, particularly in agriculture. To make them closer to the communities they serve. This is not something that has just happened federally, Jon. I remember the state Labor government moved the state revenue office to Ballarat and the TAC to Geelong. There were proposals for that at the last state election. It has happened in New South Wales. Taking the jobs that are provided, and the organisations that are meant to serve communities to the communities that they do serve, making them closer has happened over the last couple of decades. And I don’t think it is a bad thing. But, we made it clear before the last election that we were going to do that.

JON FAINE:

Mr Shorten said a few moments ago, and you were no doubt on hold and listening, that there would be an enquiry into immigration rackets and rorts and 457 visa fraud. Would it be something that the Coalition would agree to and cooperate on? Or, regardless of who wins the election something that would be of public benefit?

SCOTT RYAN:

Let’s see how the processes currently underway, that were brought to public attention earlier this week, operate. The truth is that the fact that the Department of Immigration has referred those for investigation is actually proof that the system is working. The fact that they are brought to public attention because they are under investigation is proof that the system is working. Because ensuring that where there is inappropriate conduct we act upon it is the aim of having the enforcement process in place that we do.

JON FAINE:

That is laughable to say that the system is working, it is about as laughable as saying in your own portfolio area, Senator Ryan as we have discussed on multiple occasions, that there are not training industry rorts because you have prosecuted a few. It is the tip of the iceberg.

SCOTT RYAN:

Again, I think we have got to actually concede when we have an enforcement mechanism that is operating, that draws it to public attention, in my particular portfolio that you brought up we have nearly a dozen actions underway with the ACCC. Now, we have made it clear and I have made it clear that the rorts should not have happened but the cleaning up processes that the Liberal Party and Coalition have put in place are working. No administrative system will ever be perfect, so the aim has to be that rorts and misuse of it are absolutely minimised and where they do happen that there are systems in place to catch it, to punish, and to enforce the rules. Now, in the immigration space I think what we have seen this week is the fact that the department has actually referred these for further investigation and action. And that is proof that the enforcement system is working.

JON FAINE:

Senator Di Natale told us yesterday that if he is in the position either in the House or the Senate to negotiate in order for either Party to secure supply and form government or just to get its legislation through he will have two immediate requirements as a negotiating point. One is: no more coal mines; the other is: end offshore detention. Bill Shorten told us this morning that everything is negotiable effectively, after the election even though there is policies he is taking to the people before the election. Will the Liberal Party negotiate similarly to form government or secure passage through the Senate?

SCOTT RYAN:

I suppose I can speak on behalf of the Party here, but I am not the actual Prime Minister. We are not negotiating and we won’t negotiate on the strong border protection policies we have put in place. As the Prime Minister has said, and I think I have said to you before Jon, this is no longer a debate about theory it is a debate about do we want to see what happened before happen again? We will not let that happen. And despite what Bill Shorten says, he says everything is negotiable, they are the ones that have done preference deals with the Greens, not the Coalition…

(Interrupted)

JON FAINE:

So do you seriously expect us to believe that if the only issue preventing Malcolm Turnbull from forming government is to negotiate with the Greens on offshore detention that he will not do so?

SCOTT RYAN:

The Coalition is absolutely resolved that we will not see the policies that stopped the boats weakened so that they start again. It is a rock solid commitment. We have shown that through everything from seeking passage of things like Temporary Protection Visas – which Labor still oppose and which was difficult to get through Parliament – through the abuse some of my colleagues copped for supporting these policies. I have seen what happens in my 8 years when they are unwound, we put them back in place and they are not going to be unwound again with the Coalition’s support.

JON FAINE:

Your Party will pass-up forming government, you will go into opposition because you won’t even negotiate with the Greens on reforming the offshore detention centres?

SCOTT RYAN:

The prospect of Richard Di Natale and the Greens supporting a Coalition Government – I think in fact he has ruled that out. The only option for a coalition government formed by the Greens is with the Labor Party.  The Greens have specifically ruled it out, it is not a prospect. The only prospect of it happening is if people vote for the Greens and vote for the Labor Party.

JON FAINE:

Your Party’s position on the same-sex marriage plebiscite has managed to infuriate everybody whilst trying to placate everybody. Senator Ryan, I will put it to you that the confusion that your Party’s now generate on whether a plebiscite is binding or people can sit it out and abstain or not has ended up infuriating those who want it and those who do not want it. Those who want same-sex marriage and those who do not. It would have been better, politically, just to adopt a position and upset one group rather than all groups.

SCOTT RYAN:

When I speak to voters Jon, I know there are people who are particularly passionate about this issue, both for and against, I think most Australians will have a view but they probably do not feel as passionately about it as some of the activists. But, overwhelmingly, Australians want to be able to make this decision themselves, as poll after poll has shown. And I think our position is responsible because it will resolve the issue and as the Prime Minister has made clear, he will be campaigning for a ‘yes’ vote. And I, unlike the Labor Party, have a lot of confidence that the Australian people will conduct this like they have conducted referenda after referenda – responsibly. When they make a decision which I think will probably be in favour of change, then that will be reflected in Parliament.

JON FAINE:

Which way will you vote?

SCOTT RYAN:

I will vote ‘yes’ at the plebiscite, but I will reflect the result of the plebiscite in Parliament, whatever the result may be.

JON FAINE:

If Nick Xenophon is polling 38 per cent primary votes in Mayo in South Australia, what does that tell you about the 2-Party system? Particularly though your Party which would have regarded that as safe territory?

SCOTT RYAN:

Mayo, of course, gave Alexander Downer a scare in 1998 where John Schumann and the Democrats nearly took it. It has a history of not being as you describe. Nick Xenophon has populist, simplistic policies and as both the Coalition and the Labor Party in South Australia have said, they have some short-term appeal but they are not going to deal with the challenges of the South Australian economy. They are not going to provide increased opportunities because he plans to shut down trade deals that, for example, are seeing strong growth in agricultural areas because the fact that we can now sell products to countries that we could not sell to before. He threatens all of that.

JON FAINE:

I will have to leave it there, thank you indeed for putting up with my impertinence and my pointed questions this morning. Senator Scott Ryan from the Liberal Party.

(ENDS)