Topics: First Turnbull Ministry, Assistant Cabinet Secretary Role.
E&OE…
RAF EPSTEIN
That is the Prime Minister this morning, Senator Scott Ryan is a Liberal from Victoria he is now Assistant Cabinet Secretary, Scott Ryan, good afternoon.
SCOTT RYAN
Good afternoon, Raf.
EPSTEIN
Sounds a lot like the Prime Minister wants a lot of room to backflip and change policies from the past?
RYAN
I think he was debating that very point with Michael Brissenden this morning. I have long thought, Raf, that the most underutilised words in a politician’s vocabulary are: I have changed my mind and here is why. The point Malcolm was making this morning with Michael Brissenden was that we should feel free to change our minds, but importantly we should explain why. I think those two are very important to remain linked because circumstances change, something might not work how you intended, the world is a different place three or four years later than it might be when you introduced a policy. So, changing policies doesn’t mean a backflip but it is important we explain why, the evidence that has come in, what we were seeking to achieve and how it might not be working as intended.
EPSTEIN
A lot of the Government’s critics will be thinking, this is a strong hint that there are changes in climate change policy, is that right?
RYAN
I have heard the interview this morning, I interpret it exactly as the Prime Minister outlined it, we need to monitor our policies, we need to understand whether they are working or whether they are not working, why that is the case and we need to remain agile. It makes no sense to have policies that in the economic space, for example, are attuned to the economy of the 1980s or 1990s before the explosion of demand from our near north in Asia. It makes no sense to have industry policies that are based on the pre-digital era, the world and social and economic policy are evolving much more quickly, and so the point he was making is that we need to stay abreast of that probably more than we did ten or twenty years ago…
EPSTEIN
But where does the agility end Scott Ryan? I don’t think people expect Malcolm Turnbull to be bound by Tony Abbott’s pre-election promises. I am sure his party expects him to stick with whatever promises he made last week, but what do we have that we can hold Malcolm Turnbull accountable to? If we can’t hold him accountable to his climate change statements back when he lost to Tony Abbott, what do we have to hold him to, is there anything anchoring the policy or is it just whatever you and the Cabinet think will work?
RYAN
What anchors… (inaudible) are the aspirations that the Prime Minister outlined and that we all have. One of the points that the Prime Minister made was that we need to be optimistic about the opportunities we have as a country at the moment, but also realistic about the challenges that we face. Economically the world is much more competitive that it was a decade or two ago, probably even half a decade ago. The most important thing the Prime Minister explained was that he will explain himself, that he will go into depth and explain why he has changed his mind, or explain why a policy is necessary. In my view it is that explanation that generates public support and consent for policies. I don’t think people are afraid of politicians changing their mind; they want to know it was done for the right reasons and that is where the explanation is so important.
EPSTEIN
You can hear Scott Ryan’s explanations, 1300 222 774 is the phone number. Senator, I have had a few pretty angry and snide things said to me last week from people who were much more in the Abbott camp than the Turnbull camp. Are you confident that that bitterness will fade and that they won’t ruin Malcolm Turnbull’s Government?
RYAN
Last week was a very difficult one for the Liberal Party, a very difficult one for myself and my colleagues and I don’t think anyone underestimates that, and when it happened previously the Liberal Party has pulled together. We are very aware that some people feel bruised by this experience, I am very aware of that. Making sure that we listen to all our colleagues, that we listen to their perspectives and we understand where they are coming from is a priority for all of us.
EPSTEIN
You are kind of asking us to believe that the Coalition politician is a totally different human being to the Labor politician; they couldn’t contain their bitterness over the deposing of a first-term PM, why should we think that the Liberal Party can?
RYAN
I think Andrew Robb alluded to this last week when he pointed out that the Party Room had made a decision, and difficult though it was, there was a vote in the Party Room and that is the big difference between what happened between Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard the first time.
EPSTEIN
Scott Ryan is with me, he is the Assistant Cabinet Secretary, he is the assistant to Arthur Sinodinos who is going to be Cabinet Secretary, it is the same as being a Minister. However, Scott Ryan I really don’t understand how it works, what will you and Arthur Sinodinos do, and how will you function, are you the gatekeepers for the Cabinet agenda?
RYAN
I wouldn’t say that at all. One of the things, Raf, that we notice in our lives, in the corporate world, in our businesses, even in our local footy clubs is that there is a huge volume of information out there and substantial expectations around decisions being made quickly. That has posed a challenge for a Cabinet system of government all around the world. What Arthur’s role is, and my role to assist him with, is to ensure a couple of things. Firstly, that there is a strategic view of where the Government is going, that it is not just about decisions that have to be made immediately. Most importantly, that things can be coordinate across portfolios, so that a whole-of-government view can be taken. Let me give you one example from my previously portfolio when I worked with Christopher Pyne in education, a lot of work on higher education has a lot to do with what happens in our support for publically funded science. Getting the links between the two to ensure that public money is spent most effectively and that the country extracts the most gain out of it has been a challenge for decades in Australia, and then linking that further to commercial research. That is one of the areas where a cross-government view can lead to much more effective outcomes, even for just the current activities being undertaken.
EPSTEIN
So is that a job, they are two jobs that have been created, surely someone was doing that in every other previous Cabinet?
RYAN
There has always been a Cabinet Secretary, I think Labor had a politician do it, in past years I think under the Howard government there was occasionally a politician and occasionally it was an appointment official.
EPSTEIN
Now there are two politicians doing it.
RYAN
I don’t sit in Cabinet, I work to support Arthur Sinodinos, and Arthur of course having been at the centre of John Howard’s government for ten years as the chief of staff. Arthur is probably as well placed as anyone in the country to understand how the various levers of government work. But I think our society has changed a lot in ten years, even the world you work in Raf, the sheer amount of information that we have access to, the sheer amount of data we have access to, making sure we can use that across government, making sure that stakeholders feel like they have a say in the processes of government that their voices get heard, calling upon all the experts, I think there is a lot more coordination work now that needs to go into policy making to generate and maintain public support for decisions, some that are more difficult than others. I think that is the role that Arthur will be doing and I am very proud and honoured to be able to assist him with it.
EPSTEIN
Sounds like you are preparing a Cabinet submission for all ABC presenters to be given extra staff to deal with the information overload, I’ll add to that submission if you wish! Tell me, your promotion, is it a reward for helping Malcolm Turnbull get the Prime Ministership?
RYAN
I was a parliamentary secretary before, and that is the technical position I was appointed to today, I have had a role change. But, I don’t think it is fair or reasonable to view such changes through that prism. What we saw today was the youngest ever member of the Executive Council in Wyatt Roy, he wasn’t there today but will be sworn in as soon as he comes back from overseas in Ken Wyatt will be the first ever Indigenous member of the Executive in Australian history, we have got five women in Cabinet of various ages and backgrounds. What the Prime Minister has done is tried to choose a team which reflects the wide variety of experiences that people have around Australia, as well as the wide variety of stages of life that they are, gender balance, regional balance, they are all very important to bring the widest range of perspectives to the Cabinet process.
EPSTEIN
Do you think the number one determinate that will stop any leaking being damaging will be the poll numbers? If Malcolm Turnbull is ahead of the polls that will mean leaks will be less likely and less damaging?
RYAN
Arthur was asked this on morning television this morning, and I agree entirely with what he said, he has more experience in this process than most, which is: if people feel like they have all had their say, and people feel like they get a fair shake in making decisions then those things tend to stop. And that is definitely my experience and state and federal political level, and that is something we are very committed to ensuring that every voice gets heard.
EPSTEIN
Okay, thanks for your time.
RYAN
Thanks for your time, Raf.
(ENDS)