Topics: Double dissolution election, polls, ABCC, owner-drivers, election timing.
E&OE…
NEIL MITCHELL
Now there will be a joint sitting this morning of the Parliament. On the line, he is about to go off to that joint sitting, Victorian Senator and Minister for Vocational Education and Skills Senator Scott Ryan – good morning.
MINISTER RYAN
Good morning Neil.
MITCHELL
First, you were one of the so-called group of eight who helped install Malcolm Turnbull, do these polls still justify the move?
RYAN
I think every election is going to be close, particularly with what we saw happen in Queensland a couple of years ago with Campbell Newman, it proves John Howard’s rule which is you can never take any election for granted. I expect every election federally to be close because government is difficult and there are difficult choices to be made. What I have seen over the last couple of weeks doesn’t surprise me at all.
MITCHELL
So how do you turn it around?
RYAN
We have Parliament being recalled today to deal with two critical bits of legislation, plus a new one that has emerged to protect the jobs of owner-drivers in the trucking industry. And our objective is to get the law changed. That is what the Prime Minister wants and that is what we want. And if that happens, then we will have an election presumably as expected in August/September which would be about three years. But, if the Parliament refuses to pass those Bills, particularly the ABCC Bill which is about a $50 billion industry – particularly in Melbourne with the lawlessness on building sites – then the mechanism for it is to have a double dissolution of Parliament. And just because of the way the constitution works, it has to be held in July. So I don’t think it is hugely early, it would be a couple of months earlier than normal, but that is the mechanism that is in the constitution to resolve a dispute like this.
MITCHELL
So what happens this morning? You go off to a Joint Sitting soon, why?
RYAN
So the Senate and the House will be called to their own Chambers, and because Parliament has been formally recalled by the Governor General, the House of Representative Members will wander over the building to come into the Senate Chamber, listen to a speech by the Governor General, outlining why Parliament has been recalled – which is written for him by the Government – and the two Chambers will go to work. The Senate will hopefully consider the Building and Construction Commission Bill which was law under the Howard government and Bill Shorten got rid of with the Greens. And the House of Representatives will go away and they will start dealing with the trucking industry Bill which is so important and the reason as to why we have got hundreds of truckies and their families around Parliament at the moment. When the House of Representatives passes that it will come to the Senate for consideration as well.
MITCHELL
Would you agree it looks like, as most are interpreting today, the early election is almost certain?
RYAN
It is only looking that way because Labor and the Greens refuse to put in place a law that two royal commissions have said that we need, that was law under the Howard government, that Federal Court Justices who are dealing with at the moment more than a thousand charges with more than 100 officials at the CFMEU, we have had that riot in Melbourne at the Emporium site. This is not something that has been recently invented, this is something that was law under the Howard government.
MITCHELL
Just to get back to the polls, do you agree both parties, and evening both leaders are on the nose? People keep ringing me too about informal votes, minor parties and things, do you agree they are both on the nose.
RYAN
I have always been realistic about the public standing of politicians…
MITCHELL
Yeah but Malcolm Turnbull has gone backwards at an alarming rate for you.
RYAN
And that is because government is difficult, it involves some very difficult decisions.
MITCHELL
But that didn’t apply when Tony Abbott was leader?
RYAN
It did, I think what we have seen over the last few years – particularly dealing with the Senate, that you know, we have got people now demanding the abolition of this road safety tribunal, so-called, to protect trucking jobs who were supporting only six months ago. And we warned this sort of thing was going to happen and people didn’t listen at the time until hundreds of truckies drove their trucks to Canberra with their families and said: I am about to lose my house.
MITCHELL
Do you agree that a level of expectation has been created by the new government lead by Malcolm Turnbull and people feel it hasn’t been delivered?
RYAN
I think, to be fair to Malcolm and to be fair to everyone who takes a difficult job being prime minister – I think this applies to Julia Gillard as well – expectations of politicians are quite high and it is very difficult to meet them. John Howard has said that, reflecting on his long career which had a huge number of achievements. But going into the election, in essence every election is about asking the people for their confidence, and if you don’t get their confidence you don’t win. I don’t think anyone can say that a Government is guaranteed a second or third term anymore.
MITCHELL
So you reckon you could lose?
RYAN
I think we could win or lose an election. I honestly do. As we have seen in Victoria, in Queensland, Federally over the last few years – look at what happened to Kevin Rudd – every election is winnable by the opposition and every election is losable by a Government.
MITCHELL
I know you need to get to Parliament, I just wanted to play this ad that the CFMEU is running. It argues that ice dealers have more rights than building works. This was on TV last night, prime time campaign that is about the Australian Building and Construction Commission and it shows lawyers talking to both somebody who is supposed to be an ice dealer and the other one who is a building worker.
(Audio of CFMEU TV advertisement)
Sorry, there is an element of truth in that isn’t it? They won’t have access to lawyers?
RYAN
No, that is not true. You do have access to lawyers. If, however you have got a person coming before the ABCC that might be sharing a lawyer with twenty other people being called, then the Commissioner can actually say that they need to get another lawyer. And that is about protecting the witness. Similarly, the idea that you are compelled to answer: first of all, you are protected against self-incrimination, so that protection remains. But the reason you are compelled to answer is because over time what has been seen and what the royal commission has pointed out is that if you are given the choice to not answer you get threatened and intimated by some of these thugs, and what the witnesses need to be able to say is: that I had no choice but to answer. It is not self-incriminating though.
MITCHELL
That is true that an ice dealer doesn’t have to answer though?
RYAN
If Daniel Andrews wants to toughen-up the law on ice dealers, he is not going to have an argument with the Federal Government. The point here is that the royal commission has said and witnesses have said, they need the protection of being compelled to answer. Otherwise, the thugs come after them and say: don’t you dare answer those questions. And you do get a lawyer.
MITCHELL
We went through something similar in the broadcast industry years ago where we were told you could be put in a room and you had to answer questions.
RYAN
We give these powers to ASIC, and I think people want ASIC to have those powers to, for example, look at the banks and look at some of the corporate regulation. These are not uncommon powers with our regulators. The ACCC has some very strong powers.
MITCHELL
The Governor General has just arrived, we better let you go and greet him. Thanks for your time.
RYAN
Thanks Neil.
(ENDS)