Topics: Iraq, Federal Budget, crossing the floor, asylum seeker legal action, Newspoll
E&OE…
Kieran Gilbert
This is AM Agenda. Thanks very much for your company this morning. With me now the Parliamentary Secretary for Education, Senator Scott Ryan, and the Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Matt Thistlethwaite. Gentlemen, good morning to you both. Before we get on to politics, obviously this is a very concerning situation in Iraq. The Foreign Minister says that contingencies are being put in place. Matt Thistlethwaite, for our diplomatic officials it’s so hard to predict where this goes and what sort of international intervention there might be if any.
Matt Thistlethwaite
Yeah a very, very concerning situation in Iraq, Kieran. Labor’s sought an urgent briefing from the Government on this and I understand that will be delivered, and a very concerning situation. We need to keep a vigilant eye on it and note what’s going on there.
Gilbert
When you look at the history of that strife-torn country there, Senator Ryan, again as I say it’s very hard to predict what’s going to go on, but also I suppose to work out how to respond? Because if you’ve got militants based in civilian areas around the nation, it’s hard to just respond with air strikes.
Scott Ryan
Look, it’s volatile and it’s extremely violent. The ISIS has been listed under UN sanction provisions. It’s been listed under the criminal code in Australia, as a group that is subject to anti-terrorist provisions. As the Foreign Minister made clear, we’ve got plans in place to evacuate diplomats, but it is a situation the world is watching closely.
Gilbert
Let’s look at politics now, and yesterday as the Government’s trying to sell this Budget that hasn’t gone down very well, you’ve got two of your colleagues in the Senate – Liberal senators – speaking very passionately against the Debt Levy. This revenue-raising measure which was meant to be a key part of the message, I guess, to say that this is a fair Budget. That those on higher incomes are contributing, two of your own colleagues can’t cop it and are likely to abstain or cross the floor.
Ryan
Well there’re two things that are important about this, Kieran. Firstly, this part of the Budget is getting through. This part of the Budget is being implemented and we made that clear, that everyone should share the burden. So this will become law, and on the first of July it will become a temporary tax measure. But it is also a sign of the strength of the Coalition and the Liberal Party. We are not scared of people having different opinions, and this is a great difference between us and the Labor Party. The threat to cross the floor and crossing the floor in the Labor Party is automatic expulsion. We know that whether it was the NBN, whether it was the ETS, that there were internal voices of Labor dissent, but they never had the courage to speak out.
Gilbert
But when you talk about this legislation getting through, that’s true it will with Labor’s support. But Senator Macdonald seemed to flag taking a similar action down the track when it comes to the Paid Parental Leave Scheme, and that might not be as successful in the Parliament.
Ryan
For all but the last three years in the last three decades really, a government has needed the support of crossbenchers or the opposition to get legislation through in the Senate. So whether it’s the carbon tax…
Gilbert
…but is it a good look when you’ve got senators crossing the floor, saying you’ve got the wrong priorities? The Budget approach is wrong and misplaced? That’s essentially what Senator McDonald was saying yesterday.
Ryan
Well I don’t agree with what Senator Macdonald said but I think that people value politicians having the opportunity to speak their conscience, and that is a profound difference between us and the Labor Party. Now I disagree with Senator Macdonald, but he has that right to speak out in the Liberal Party and it’s a right that goes back to our founding. People like politicians speaking the truth rather than the automatons we saw for years under Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd.
Gilbert
And the fact is they will get their legislation through anyway with your help.
Thistlethwaite
Well Kieran, I admire Scott’s attempt to try and dress this up as open policy debate within the Coalition, but what it really is, is open warfare. This is a Government that is hopelessly divided. It’s not just this issue of the Budget proceeding through the Parliament; it’s the Paid Parental Leave Scheme. There’s been open dissent regarding this policy for a number of months now. It’s senior members of the Government backgrounding journalists last week and telling them that they openly deceived the National Party when it came to the passage of the petrol tax increase through the Coalition Party Room. This is open warfare in a government that is hopelessly divided, and Scott can do all he likes to dress it up but I guess that the Prime Minister wouldn’t be too happy with what’s going on in the Senate.
Gilbert
But surely when you’ve got a Party Room of so many individuals, and a party that has prided itself on having a broad church as they describe it, you’re going to get different opinions?
Thistlethwaite
But isn’t that what the Party Room’s for? Where you have these discussions, where you work as a team?
Gilbert
But not everyone’s going to agree.
Thistlethwaite
Well that’s right and you sort it out in the Party Room, and if you’re a united government you work together in the Parliament on issues that affect the Australian people.
Gilbert
The Government does, these are backbenchers you’re talking about.
Thistlethwaite
Yeah, but they’re still members of the Government.
Gilbert
They’re not bound by…
Thistlethwaite
But they’re still members of this Government and the great disappointment with all of this, Kieran, is that we’re seeing all these members of the Government make these claims with regards to the Deficit Levy. Why aren’t they standing up for Medicare? Why aren’t they saying that the Medicare co-payment is a disastrous policy? Why aren’t they standing up for students and the deregulation of university fees and pensioners? No, it’s about this particular issue and a symbol of the divided nature of this Government.
Gilbert
It is the issue that, I guess, of $8 billion worth of savings and cuts that need to be legislated by the end of next week if they are going to come into force on July the first. Are you confident that will eventuate?
Ryan
Well I don’t know if they will need to be legislated by next week to take effect on the first of July. For example excise measures can be legislated after they are announced. The point is that we announced our Budget and we intend to try and get our Budget through the Senate, and we expect that the Senate will respect the mandate we have been elected to do. Particularly repealing the carbon tax and the mining tax. Matt there talked about the Party Room as if no one was allowed to have an opinion outside it. Yet under Labor for the last four years we had the farce of a Labor Party Room fighting amongst itself, and we knew they all had different opinions, but they never actually said them. We respect diversity but we also expect that the Senate will respect our mandate in the Budget.
Gilbert
Sure, but there’s no guarantee that’s going to happen. How much do you need to have legislated in the next fortnight for those measures to kick in?
Ryan
We’re still dealing with dozens of budget measures that Labor left us; announced but as yet unlegislated. In some cases legislation wasn’t even drafted. We are still playing catch-up to the Labor Party’s mess that it left on dozens and dozens of budget measures.
Gilbert
So does this mean you might not have legislated multi-billion dollar savings and cuts that Joe Hockey announced in the Budget?
Ryan
We intend to have them all legislated, they take effect from the first of July, in order to bring this budget mess back into balance.
Gilbert
When you talk about division in party rooms, today two members of your caucus are going to move that Labor should change its position on offshore processing, Melissa Parke and Anna Burke. They reflect a broader view in the Party that that approach should be changed. So while you’ve been having a go at the Government for internal division, there’s a fair bit of division on that policy, continued division on that policy, which has caused you so much heartache over the years.
Thistlethwaite
Well the difference is Kieran, that this debate is going on in the Party Room. It’s part of an internal Labor Party process of dealing with policy issues. It’s in accordance with the rules of the Labor Party caucus and in accordance with over a century of practice of working out policy in the Party Room, and it’s the right of any member to move a motion such as this. Notice was given in accordance with the Party’s rules and we’ll debate that today. But I’m confident that Labor’s policy on this important issue won’t change; and that is we’ll support the regional resettlement arrangements and offshore processing.
Gilbert
Does it show that Labor’s heart is not in it as the Immigration Minister asserted earlier in this program?
Thistlethwaite
No, it shows that there’s a diversity of views in the Labor Party when it comes to an issue such as this. But at the end of the day we’ll have a debate, and we’ll work out what the policy will be and we’ll go out in as a united front and support that policy. And as I said, I’m confident that the policy of the regional resettlement arrangements, which has been effective in deterring people smugglers, has and will work and will stay in place.
Gilbert
Well after criticising Labor for not having diversity of opinion, you can hardly criticise them now, can you? For having this debate again?
Ryan
But the problem is Labor’s record in this case. So Kieran, Matt talks there as if their record in Government was that they still maintained all these polices. Labor unwound our border protection policies. They left us with 50,000 people arriving unlawfully on our shores, and then in the dying days, in a desperate political move, they announced this plan but they didn’t fund it. They didn’t have any plans to implement it. What we’re seeing today in the Labor caucus is exactly what we would see if Labor ever had responsibility for our borders ever again. They watered down all these policies; they’ve done it once, this shows they’ll do it again.
Gilbert
When you talk about this legal action, I asked Scott Morrison about it, on the vessel that hit the rocks of Christmas Island in December 2010. He’s described it’s as ‘shameful legal action’. Why shouldn’t groups representing those asylum seekers seek some recourse if they think there should have been more resources in the area to provide people with more support for stress?
Ryan
Well I think the Minister also made clear that they had a right to undertake this action. He described it as ‘shameful’ because, according to the mentality that underpins what I heard George Newhouse being interviewed on ABC radio this morning, is that as the Minister said; should we have been running a bigger water taxi service? Let’s put it context, we had some incredibly brave actions from service personnel in Australia who saved over 40 people on a very tragic day, and I don’t think that we should be supporting or underpinning attacks on the work that they undertook, often at great personal peril.
Gilbert
Matt Thistlethwaite?
Thistlethwaite
That was a really, really concerning incident, Kieran. It was horrifying and I think it actually changed a lot of views in the Labor Party, and in the wider community, about the approach to asylum seekers. I wasn’t there of course but I saw the image on television and they were quite shocking, and we saw Australian personnel doing all they could to save people, and in doing so risked their own lives. You know, throwing rescue tubes in a dangerous situation on the rocks there, trying to save people. So it’s a concerning situation but it’s the right of someone to undertake this action in a court and we’ll have to wait for the outcome.
Gilbert
I want to ask you about the newspoll to conclude. We’ve seen the minor parties and the independents with their numbers up to 17% in the latest news poll. Does this reflect, pretty much looks like it, that people are disenchanted with the two major parties? Certainly the Government in the wake of the Budget.
Ryan
Well what it reflects Kieran is that we were left with an enormous mess, and it’s taking some very difficult and occasionally unpopular decisions to bring the Budget back into balance. We always said that we would never shy away from the very difficult decisions and we know that we do, as with any budget, have a job to convince people that these difficult decisions are necessary and that’s what we intend to do.
Gilbert
Senator, not senator, former senator. Now member of the House of Representatives, Matt Thistlethwaite your thoughts on these numbers? Because Bill Shorten, his approval rating went up in the wake of the Budget, but he doesn’t seem to be able to hold it there, its dropped back to where it was prior.
Thistlethwaite
Look if we assume that the Parliament goes the full term, Kieran, there’s about 86 newspolls between now and the next election. The numbers are going to go up; the numbers are going to go down. The numbers I’m really concerned about at the moment are the number of residents in my constituency that are going to lose bulk billing because of the co-payment. The number of letters I’ve got on my desk from parents of high school students who see their kids’ opportunity to go to university being whittled away by increases in student fees and the number of pensioners that are going to be worse off because of the Budget.
Ryan
You should stop lying to them then, and then you wouldn’t scare them.
Gilbert
That’s a nice way to finish.
Thistlethwaite
You’re the one who told the lies mate, before the election.
(Inaudible)
Gilbert
Gentlemen we’re out of time. Thank you both, Matt Thistlethwaite, Senator Scott Ryan. Appreciate it.
(Ends)