Subjects: ABCC Bill; Senate crossbench; resignation of Senator Bob Day; Senator David Leyonhjelm; Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act; smashed avocado & Bernard Salt.
EO&E…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Special Minister of Stat Scott Ryan is my guest tonight, welcome.
SENATOR SCOTT RYAN:
Good evening Patricia.
KARVELAS:
Let’s start with the industrial relations changes, have you won over the crossbench in the Senate on this? I mean, how much are you willing to negotiate? Because I’ve heard Senator Leyonhjelm on Sky say that he’s effectively horse-trading, that he’s talking about changes he wants in some other area to get his support.
SENATOR RYAN:
Look, I haven’t been involved in discussions with Senator Leyonhjelm on this particular piece of legislation. We remain optimistic that the Senate will respect, not only the mandate that we got at the last election, and indeed the election before that, when this was also an explicit policy, but that the Senate will see how important this particular legislation is to the future economic growth of Australia.
I mean, we’re not just talking about any union when it comes to the construction sector. The CFMEU, as well as donating more than $2 million to Labor, has more than 100 officials up on more than 1000 alleged offences at the moment. It has been described as an embarrassment to the trade union movement in one court ruling, it has seen an explosion in industrial action ever since Bill Shorten himself put forward the legislation to abolish it.
KARVELAS:
But on this notion of what you’re willing to offer up to get support for the bills, will horse-trading be part of that, or are you willing to say that you’re not going to talk about other changes that other Senators would like to see in relation to getting support for the ABCC and Registered Organisations?
SENATOR RYAN:
I don’t think it’s fair or reasonable to have public discussions or public negotiations. It’s not a sign of respect –
KARVELAS:
(interrupts) Sure, but on the principle of giving some Senators something to get this through?
SENATOR RYAN:
In the past there have been a number of issues upon which you know, sometimes you have to have give-and-take in dealing with the Senate that was elected by the Australian people. I’m not going to be belligerent, I’m going to put forward our case, as my colleagues will, but at the same time we do need to get passage of this legislation through the Senate and other Senators have their own priorities.
KARVELAS:
Ok so you don’ think that the notion of trading on something entirely different to get support for the ABCC and Registered Organisations is fundamentally wrong?
SENATOR RYAN:
Will I think everything is a matter of context, and it might be for example, I know Senator Leyonhjelm has previously mentioned concerns with the ABCC Bill as drafted, that was in the last Parliament a couple of years ago, so not being involved in those discussions I can’t comment. But I think part of governing and dealing with the Parliament the people elected, which means we don’t have a majority in the Senate, is respecting the fact that different Senators have different priorities. Now, remember, this only happens because of the sheer belligerence of the Labor Party and the Greens, who both receive massive financial support from the CFMEU, and refuse to respect the mandate the Government got at the 2013 election, and at the most recent election. This has been a core element of our commitment on industrial and workplace relations. We can no longer have a situation where it costs 30 per cent more to build anything in Australia because of the rampant industrial thuggery of the CFMEU.
KARVELAS:
Sure, but Senator Leyonhjelm wouldn’t articulate on Sky the other things that he’s negotiating on, but he did say they’re not industrial relations, and he made it clear he’s horse-trading, he wasn’t hiding it – he was actually very upfront. So if he was pushing –
SENATOR RYAN:
(interrupts) David’s like that (laughs).
KARVELAS:
Yeah I did, I found at least it was, you know, just saying it as it was and that’s his view. If he was pushing for reform to 18C, racial discrimination, in exchange for his support on ABCC, would the Government countenance it?
SENATOR RYAN:
Well one of the reasons I didn’t want to get into a discussion around public negotiations, I don’t think that respects my Senate colleagues, is that I don’t want to be drawn into hypotheticals. But the Government’s made it very clear and the Prime Minister’s made it clear that reform of that, addressing that particular issue is not a priority.
KARVELAS:
Ok well it might not be a priority, but that’s not ruling it out, if David Leyonhjelm pushed on this issue?
SENATOR RYAN:
The Prime Minister’s words – and there are a number of Liberals who feel very strongly about this issue too – but the Prime Minister’s made clear that moving on that issue is not a priority, and as the former prime minister said using different words. Look, the discussions will be happening between the Minister and all the crossbench Senators, but again, these discussions are necessary because of the belligerence of the Labor Party and the Greens, who receive massive financial commitments from the CFMEU. We’ve had discussion around donations and foreign donations also on this program recently Patricia, but the sheer financial might and the hold it has over the Labor Party, that the CFMEU has over the Labor Party are clearly preventing them doing something that is in the national interest.
KARVELAS:
Well you know that the former prime minister Tony Abbott has brought up this issue of amending Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act. The Prime Minister addressed it, which you just quoted. But then, the former prime minister tweeted that he thought that effectively if he got Xenophon – he said, you know, Abbott says he would work with Nick Xenophon on proposal if Nick Xenophon and his team was interested. So he says it is possible. Is he right?
SENATOR RYAN:
Well look members of the parliamentary party, the backbench of the Liberal Party, are always free to talk about the issues that they wish to. They’re not bound by a binding caucus like the Labor Party. But the former prime minister made it clear to a number of us who had very strong views on this issue in the last Parliament –
KARVELAS:
(interrupts) Including you?
SENATOR RYAN:
Including myself – that this was not something he wanted to progress. The current Prime Minister’s made it clear that this is not a priority for the Government to move forward with, and that is the Government position.
KARVELAS:
Let’s move on to another issue. It was revealed in Senate Estimates today that Senate President Stephen Parry hired Eric Hutchinson, his former Tasmanian colleague who lost his seat, who failed to get elected in July – he’s hired him, and this is a new job. It’s just been invented for him. I think, you know, he just kind of hangs out in Tasmania and goes to functions, an invented job. Is that acceptable on the taxpayers?
SENATOR RYAN:
I don’t think that’s a fair way to describe it. The President of the Senate, and Stephen is the President of the Senate, requested an extra personal staffing position from the Prime Minister due to his increased responsibilities. That request was granted. It’s within the number of staff the Government have so it’s not an extra job that has been created in the way you described. But I might also say Patricia, this is not uncommon. Mike Kelly who just won re-election as the member for Eden-Monaro worked for Bill Shorten after losing his seat in 2013. Wayne Swan himself did the same thing after losing his seat in 1996 and worked for Kim Beazley.
KARVELAS:
I think you’re right, there is precedent, it’s happened before. So I don’t think anyone could contest that because you’ve just pointed to those examples and they’re right. But the number – I think Fairfax is reporting four since this election, it does seem that you’ve landed a record there.
SENATOR RYAN:
I disagree. I think that Senator Parry has a very senior position, he’s a high profile Senator in Tasmania. There are lots of responsibilities on him as a Senator for Tasmania, as well as President as of the Senate. This comes within the number of staff the Government are entitled to.
KARVELAS:
Family First Senator Bob Day announced that he will be leaving the Senate today. Are you concerned that his replacement may not be as open to your industrial relations changes? It’s been reported – we know that Bob Day was in your corner – Family First could replace him with someone who isn’t.
SENATOR RYAN:
Well firstly I think, I haven’t spoken to Bob. I’ve seen the statement he’s made and from reading the statement he appears to have done quite an honourable thing because a business deal has fallen over which has put his companies that he has had for many years into real commercial pressure, and that he may suffer significant personal financial harm because of that. Reflecting on that, Bob was a significant contributor to the Senate. I did know Bob, I haven’t spoken to him today. Who Family First replace him with is a matter for Family First and then of course, the South Australian Parliament. But in my experience, Family First has a strong small business base, and that small business base is one that is strongly committed to industrial worksites, particularly in construction that are fair, where the law applies and that aren’t subject to the industrial thuggery of the CFMEU. So without counting my chickens, I will be optimistic.
KARVELAS:
Don’t go counting chickens yet. You’re optimistic –
SENATOR RYAN:
Or smashing avocado.
KARVELAS:
No, we’re going to get to that in a minute, don’t think you’re going to leave this interview without talking about smashed avocado, you will. But you are quite optimistic that the replacement will be just as hard line on industrial relations as Bob Day?
SENATOR RYAN:
No no, what I was trying to say Patricia is that having worked and having seen Family First on polling booths – you know, they’re a force in Australian politics – a lot of the people in Family First come from a small business background and I’m not going to make any assumptions who Family First put up is a matter for them and then the South Australian Parliament. I’m just an optimist by nature.
KARVELAS:
Just two final questions; The first one, I’m being sneaky, but the first one is on One Nation and what looks like soaring support since the election. Are you concerned about this and how are you going to rectify it?
SENATOR RYAN:
Well I wouldn’t describe what I read in this morning’s paper as quote, ‘soaring support’ –
KARVELAS:
Well it’s significantly higher than it was at the election.
SENATOR RYAN:
And it comes down to how the poll was taken. I saw someone comment, ‘is this one of the parties that are read out?’ in the poll sample, or in this case I think it’s an internet-based poll rather than a phone-based one. Look, polls move around. I’m not particularly concerned, I think we are nearly three years away from the next election. Whether the Government gets re-elected or not will depend on how well we deliver the promises we make.
KARVELAS:
Sure, but my question was more about, we’ve seen what’s happened with the rise of Trump and Trump supporters in the US. The question is a bigger one about the kind of rise of this, you would say, more extreme right politics in Australia. It’s taking support from the Coalition, but it’s also bringing up issues that no doubt are not centrist issues. They’re not centre-right issues, they’re on the fringes.
SENATOR RYAN:
Well I wouldn’t say – I mean I disagree with the policies of One Nation and I disagree with some of the comments that have been made thus far. But the path to dealing with the frustration that people have on politics or when people have a profoundly different view is to listen. Is to hear them out and then put your case. This is not the first time some occasionally unpleasant views have been aired in Australian politics, this happened a couple of decades ago. It happened in the early 1990s, when I think the party was led by the then-Member for Kalgoorlie who left the Labor Party. And the way Australia has always come through challenging political debates is by listening, by not vilifying your supporters of any particular movement, but by addressing their concerns. In this case not everything One Nation has said, I think, qualifies. Some of the things they’ve said I strongly disagree with, but I will address that by talking to their voters and listening to them.
KARVELAS:
Just finally, smashed avocado; are millennials spending all their money on smashed avocado and failing to save up for a house?
SENATOR RYAN:
Well I assume you’re Gen X like I am, Patricia, and so Bernard Salt left us out. We’re the ones who currently have large mortgages (laughs).
KARVELAS:
(laughs) But honestly, the argument he makes, is it fair?
SENATOR RYAN:
I think he was doing it to promote a debate. We have had what is now the second-longest period in economic history of uninterrupted growth. I’m 43 years old, I finished school in 1990, and I’m the last generation that can remember a genuine economic downturn across Australia. There are parts of Australia that have had a significant downturn since, particularly parts of regional Australia, and so I think I will in good faith say the point I think Bernard was trying to make is that owning homes and other things do require sacrifice and I think he was trying to start a debate about that.
KARVELAS:
Mmm ok, that was very diplomatically handled. No generation has been offended by Scott Ryan. Thanks for joining us.
SENATOR RYAN:
Thanks Patricia.
KARVELAS:
That’s the Special Minister of State, Scott Ryan.
(ENDS)